SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - UK Politics Thread

^Agreed.

I want to see massive changes because the system we have sucks and has failed. I want to see the end of sitting MP's on safe seats. I want a half term vote on the government of the day should we allow another two years to full term or get rid of them and have a general election and you can only stand twice for parliament not go on and on and on. No more jobs for the boys and above all prosecute MP's that break the rules with long term in prison.

Jimbuna

05-26-19 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2611414)

Heaven help you anyway. You already are in the middle of the mess. In the end, you can

- cancel brexit. And betray those who voted for it, and risk increasing polarization in society and a further desintegrating of your political and constitutional order.

- do a soft brexit. And betray those who voted for it, and risk increasing polarization in society and a further desintegrating of your political and constitutional order.

- do a hard brexit. And suffer from two wasted years that are lost for needed preparations in advance, and risk increasing polarization in society and a further desintegrating of your poltical and constitutional order.

- vote Labour in upcoming elections, and then do a soft brexit, then betray those who voted for it, and risk increasing polarization in soceity and a further desintegrating of your political and constitutional order.

I scenarios 1, 2 and 4, the EU gains a triumphant victory over you impertinent peasants. In scenario 3 the eU gains a robust victory over you impertinent peasants. In scenarios 1,2,3 and 4, Moscos wins a strategic victory, since afert the US and parts of other EU nations, the UK as a Western key power and most robust opponent to Russia is lured into becoming exclusively busy with itself and thus beig unavailable for global matters where it could get in the way of Russian interests. Moscows investments into breeding polarization into the poltical structure of the West, heavily pays off already now.

I doubt anyone can predict the final outcome but prospective candidates are starting to state their cases and Leadsom and Raab have already stated they are prepared to leave without a deal.

Just how you go about that with a hung Parliament is beyond my comprehension atm :hmmm:

Jimbuna

05-26-19 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2611418)

In the end:

Well, what ya know and who ya know.

Just back from dropping the wife off at Newcastle RVI and who should be out cleaning his car?

A nearby neighbour and friend who's brother just so happens to be a very reliable and in-the-know (IMHO anyway) political source who appears on tv shows almost daily.

He informs me that there are a growing number of senior Tories who are considering withdrawing their support for Boris because of his willingness to embrace a crash-out Brexit.

Further proof that Parliament is ham strung and in need of a total shake up and an end to first past the post.

Perhaps proportional representation is the best way forward.

Moonlight

05-26-19 06:57 AM

As I don't know enough about the inner workings of parliamentary procedures I would tend to agree with you Jimbuna, but a quick scout around the interweb and you'll come across people like Maddy Thimont Jack who do know these things.

If what she's saying in this here link is true we are going to be on a roller coaster of a ride until October 31st, this could also mean the end of the Tory party as we know it, which in my opinion is a good thing. :haha:

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...-stopped-mps-0

Jimbuna

05-26-19 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlight (Post 2611428)

I tend to agree with you but the alternative is even more concerning imho and I speak as a former card carrying member of Labour (until Steptoe took over).

MGR1	05-26-19 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2611411)

The Brexit Party are a one trick pony with no policies regarding running the country and shoule they fare as well in a general election may well hold the balance of power in a future coalition government.

If that were to be the case, heaven help us.

Not just the Brexit Party, but the Lib Dems, SNP, DUP and possibly Plaid Cymru as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2611426)

Further proof that Parliament is ham strung and in need of a total shake up and an end to first past the post.

Perhaps proportional representation is the best way forward.

One of the biggest arguments the "big two" parties make against PR is that forming any government would be hanstrung by the whims of the smaller ones.:hmmm:

Personally I'm in favour of PR but we should all bear in mind the downsides of allowing smaller parties a government role. The Tories confidence and supply deal with the DUP acts as warning.

To explain to those outside the UK , the "Back Stop" is apparently supported by large parts the population of NI as well as the business leaders there as well. Naturally the DUP are against it as it threatens the Union, their fundamental beliefs and very raison d'être. Therefore the inclusion of the "Back Stop" in the Westminster Agreement anged the DUP, causing instability and May being unable to pass the deal in Parliament.

In short, Brexit has effectively been held hostage by the DUP and it's belief in the Union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This is despite the fact that there's polling evidence that a great many Brexit supporters (Tories mainly) would be quite happy to dump Northern Ireland (and Scotland) so as to guarantee that England itself leaves the EU.

If Labour comes to power in a hypothetical General Election I think it's currently very unlikely that they'll get an overall majority. If that is the case they will become hostages of the smaller parties - the Lib Dems but most of all the SNP. It's then entirely possible that it'll be Sturgeon and co. holding up Brexit.

Which will go down even more poorly with a great many voters in England than the current shenanigans with the DUP have!:o

Mike.

STEED

05-26-19 02:37 PM

Just had a great laugh reading the BBC Text News, Change UK wants to form a coalition with the LibDems and avoid standing in certain seats. So what was funny you ask? The LibDems offered the same thing to Change UK during the council and EU elections and they snubbed the LIbDems. :haha:

Vince or the new leader should say you had your chance.

Skybird

05-26-19 05:29 PM

Me thinks Johnosn as PM - if he beocmes PM, and that is a big IF - will not live long , nor will any hard brexiteer live long as PM. Soon there would be earyl elections,a dn no matter which government then comes, I think it will declare a second referendum, which probably will be against Brexit, and so May and the EU will get what they want: the UK must stay in the EU. Its clear by now that the political caste will not let a meaningful brexit happen, nor will the EU.

In the end not just May but the majority of the Commons are Brussel's best allies. A majority of the Tories do not want a real Brexit, a majority of Labour does not want a real Brexit.

They just do not want to be held responsible for having not delivered it. Squawk loud and jump around - but don't let them call you a frog.

ikalugin

05-26-19 06:29 PM

I am not sure I can respect a political force calling themselves cucks unironically.

BossMark

05-27-19 02:13 AM

See that both Labour and the tories got a good hiding but there was no surprises there.

STEED

05-27-19 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossMark (Post 2611547)

See that both Labour and the tories got a good hiding but there was no surprises there.

True and the normal BS will come out in the media and them. It changes nothing as they will go on their merry way.

One good laugh Batten and the boys were wiped out, UKIP is dead under his dumb leadership.

RESULTS SO FAR
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cr...elections-2019

STEED

05-27-19 03:14 AM

Looking at the votes and % I would say if there was a second reforendrum the result would be another close result.

Change UK is finished without question and UKIP are almost dead.

Jimbuna

05-27-19 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGR1 (Post 2611493)

Not just the Brexit Party, but the Lib Dems, SNP, DUP and possibly Plaid Cymru as well.

One of the biggest arguments the "big two" parties make against PR is that forming any government would be hanstrung by the whims of the smaller ones.:hmmm:

Personally I'm in favour of PR but we should all bear in mind the downsides of allowing smaller parties a government role. The Tories confidence and supply deal with the DUP acts as warning.

To explain to those outside the UK , the "Back Stop" is apparently supported by large parts the population of NI as well as the business leaders there as well. Naturally the DUP are against it as it threatens the Union, their fundamental beliefs and very raison d'être. Therefore the inclusion of the "Back Stop" in the Westminster Agreement anged the DUP, causing instability and May being unable to pass the deal in Parliament.

In short, Brexit has effectively been held hostage by the DUP and it's belief in the Union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This is despite the fact that there's polling evidence that a great many Brexit supporters (Tories mainly) would be quite happy to dump Northern Ireland (and Scotland) so as to guarantee that England itself leaves the EU.

If Labour comes to power in a hypothetical General Election I think it's currently very unlikely that they'll get an overall majority. If that is the case they will become hostages of the smaller parties - the Lib Dems but most of all the SNP. It's then entirely possible that it'll be Sturgeon and co. holding up Brexit.

Which will go down even more poorly with a great many voters in England than the current shenanigans with the DUP have!:o

Mike.

Yeah, PR is probably the only way forward but the two main parties would fight tooth and nail to stop PR becoming a reality.

Jimbuna

05-27-19 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossMark (Post 2611547)

See that both Labour and the tories got a good hiding but there was no surprises there.

Another way of looking at the results might tell you that the two major winners, Brexit and LD both announced their views regarding Brexit right from the off.

Taking into account one was for and one was for against shows how divided the country is on this matter.

Should this trend carry over into a general election I can see one of the above holding the balance of power in a coalition government.

Jimbuna

05-27-19 06:31 AM

It would appear change is not only happening here in the UK.

Quote:

The big centre-right and centre-left blocs in the European Parliament have lost their combined majority amid an increase in support for liberals, the Greens and nationalists.

Pro-EU parties are still expected to be in a majority but the traditional blocs will need to seek new alliances.

The liberals and Greens had a good night, while nationalists were victorious in Italy, France and the UK.

Turnout was the highest for 20 years, bucking decades of decline.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48417744

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