I have a strong feeling, that Scotland would lose more than they would gain in being independent.

Markus

Maybe, however they could learn to improve financially, and in that case they would have to. As things are now, nothing will change.

I do not even think the majority in Scotland really wants that, and i do not see it coming. I just mean by the usual contempt shown by Westminster and adding Rees-Mogg as the icing of the cake, this could drive Scotland away.

Oh yes, most definitely :yep:

I've a sneaky suspicion another referendum would bring the outcome Sturgeon feels so passionate about.

I'm going to be rather pithy here - an Englishman, a Dane and two Germans discussing the pros and cons of Scottish Independence?

Certainly your allowed to have opinions but I'm going to highlight this little problem with all that polling data:

Certainly polling 1000 people in a population 5 million may produce a result more accurate than the same sample size from 55 million but if we break that down to only ten people you end up with this:

1 from the Scottish Borders.

2 from North of the Central Belt including the Western and Northern Isles.

3 from Eastern Central Belt (Edinburgh and environs).

4 from the Western Central Belt (Glasgow and environs).

See the problem?

For the pro-UK side their biggest problem is finding a positive message for preserving the Union. Their entire argument is predicated on dependency, that Scotland benefits from being part of the UK and would struggle to survive on it's own. The biggest problem with that argument is it never factors in the English opinion of financially supporting Scotland.

For the pro-Independence side it's much easier to produce a positive case but it falls down when it comes to the nitty gritty - money and economics. Without the degree of subsidy provided by the UK Scotland would struggle to provide the level of public spending it currently enjoys. This is where the SNP struggle most. All they can say is "if we had all the economic levers that Westminster has we would do things differently".

This last point is important. For the pro-UK side a Scotland that is financially self supporting and hence a net-contributer to the UK is a threat to their position. For the SNP the risk is that they become fully accountable for any poor decisions and they can't blame Westminster if they mess up the economy.

Ultimately it's not a great choice if all you have to choose from are two sets of blackmailers.

Mike.:hmmm:

The historian Neil Oliver's "Paean to Britain" from the "these Islands" website: LINK.
He makes some good and interesting points but, again, this is purely from a Scottish perspective.

What do the people of England think about the concept of "Britain"? As far as I'm aware that conversation hasn't really taken place.:hmmm:

Mike.

@ MGR1

If a part of a country wants to be independent they shall have this possibility.

I only have this feeling/hunch it will not go well with Scotland economically after they have become independent.

On the other hand - These feelings mostly turned out to be wrong.

Markus

There are two quotes about Scottish people that are very applicable here:

"Never tell a Scotsman he can't do something - he'll just do it anyway to prove you wrong."

and

"Never tell a Scotsman what to do - he won't do it"

Mike.:03:

You are right, no one shall tell you Scottish people what to do or not.

I hope Downing Street 10 will grant you a second referendum.

Markus

TBH honest Markus I hope not - I'm on the pro-UK side but, good grief, do they need to come up with a new plan.


Mike.

Time for a reality check:

https://www.bbc.com/news/52420116

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y4zoewoqkh...uota.png?raw=1

I reckon we're only days away from either agreeing a deal or both sides looking for a way to blame the other for the failure.

Even if an agreement could be established, the ratification procedure on the EU side can hardly be executed properly in the remaining time. A deal pushed through would further destabilize the Commission's and von der Leyen's position. I'd say, take the blame because we will be blamed for anything anyway. :wah:

^ Most likely :)

In other words the English fishing industry is expecting the UK government to bail them out after they crippled themselves because of their own short-termism....:doh:

I will add however that there are Scottish Skippers who sell any excess quota to English ones so a percentage of that Scottish total is actually fished by English boats.

Mike.