So true, we cannot know how things will be in a hundred years, and people like Farage, Rees-Mogg and Johnson obviously share your enthusiasm.

But for now especially young people in the UK and also in Europe are thoroughly screwed up for the next generation(s).
As are british people living in Europe, when you think about health care, or trade generally.

The UK has a new deal with Japan that is not better than it had been from within the EU, maybe it is better with Canada but i seriously doubt that.
Charges will be introduced on many imports and exports, which will push up prices for firms and consumers. Also for Denmark. So, congratulations.


edit: this just in:
"Britain, which left the European Union in January, loses full access to the bloc under transition arrangements[...]

The EU is Britain’s biggest financial services customer, worth about 30 billion pounds a year. The relationship has helped keep London one of the world’s biggest financial centres and a contributor to British tax revenues.

From the start of 2021, blanket access for British financial firms to the EU ends and will be replaced by an EU system known as equivalence.

This refers to an EU system that grants market access to foreign banks, insurers and other financial firms if their home rules are deemed by Brussels to be “equivalent” or as robust as regulations in the bloc.

It is a patchy form of access that excludes financial activities like retail banking.
British banks are already warning customers in the bloc their accounts will be closed.
It is a far cry from continued “passporting” or full access that banks lobbied for in the aftermath of the 2016 referendum when Britain voted to leave the EU.

Access under the system of equivalance can be withdrawn at one month’s notice, making it unpredictable."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN2830OE

Back to the pirate days, if only Johnson knew this :haha:

Replace "brexit leaders" with "negotiators" and "all heads of states", and I might even agree.


But the eU is not the shiny knight of the holy grail it depicts itself as. It has handled Brexit extremely underhanded from beginning on. It has no reason at all to point fingers at Johnson's initial misleading propaganda that made that referendum a success years ago.


Ive said it for years now. The precedent of a britain being in the end successful with brexit and having a blossoming economy (its just a sceanrio I tlak about) showing thta you cannot only be without the EU but even be better off without the EU, must be precented AT ALL COST. The strategy of the eU negotiators thus always was to maximise the punishmenet and damage for the UK.



A successful Brexit for the UK was never an acceptable option for Brussel. "You are either with us, or you are not at all". Thats why they notorioulsy rose obstacles - and accused the UK for it.


I saw Johnson always just as a tool. But if a knife is not sharp enough to cut anything anymore, what use is there to still keep it then?

Did you read the Reuters link b.t.w.? :03:

Presenting brexit as the begin of a "beautiful future" with the "NHS properly being funded" and the sun shining out of their behinds as soon as brexit is done, and all this blablah is the job of Johnson, not the EU's.
The EU negotiators cannot really be accused of not chiming in and singing the praise of brexit when it was a blunder from day zero. Or accused of telling some inconvenient facts, which Johnson is not interested in anyway. And comparing Barnier to Johnson, really? Or to Farage? Rees-Mogg? Ann Widdecombe? Negotiate? Lmao.

To make it short, they want to go, they never wanted a deal, they could have spared us a lot of time.
Hope we have learned the lesson, end of story.

'Time is short!' Michel Barnier kicks off crunch week of Brexit talks with warning to UK https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...hing-eu-latest

BORIS Johnson is expected to make a dramatic Brexit intervention ahead of a new "deadline" for talks to conclude. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/132712...dline-eu-live/

The end, whichever way it goes must be soon, surely.

This I know for sure.

The other EU-Leaders hope it will go bad for UK after they have left EU.

Because if they do very well outside EU. Citizens in some EU-country may see a light and demand a referendum.

Markus

So the EU told Denmark to cull those minks?
I guess i do not need to comment this, "Perlen vor die Säue".

The EU is not perfect but it is by far not as bad as you and those conspiracy idiots try to paint it. So freedom of travel, or choosing to work where you want if you can is bad? What exactly did you do apart from sitting alone in your house? Have you seen other countries, do you speak their languages, what have you seen of the rest of the world aprt from conspiracy sites on the internet?
That the US does not like competition and undermines it where it can, i can understand, but not what you think or say about it.
I hope the EU perishes, if only that people like you at least get an idea of what it all was about, what had been achieved for a short time, and why it was done, before you destroyed it.

I you stroll over land that is already claimed by others and so is not yours, you have to ask them for their permission, yes.

You can ask for work or offering your service where the others let you, if you do not own the place.

And if the others say they dont want you, or dont need you, or are "complete", what right exactly do you refer to that gives you claim that they have to change their minds? Is your wish their command, must they obey to your desires?

Your freedom ends where you exceute yours at the cost of destroying the right of property and the freedom of others. And if yo do not accept that, the others have the right of self defence against you.

I claim right to promenade in your living room. I claim right to camp in your garden. I call that freedom of movement. I claim right that you must employ and pay me as your gardener. I call that freedom to chose where I want to work. I appear in your bedroom at 4 am in the morning and hold a furious political speech, and call that my freedom of speech. I have a right of free opinion, so what do you want from me, eh?

Maybe you do not want anything of that since it is your livjng room, your garden and your bed room and your money, but my wish shall be your command, becasue I am about freedom, and you are only about xenophobia and antisocial greed and egoism. So, obey! Or are you no socially responsible, caring man?

With so many deadlines experienced, I am quite convinced now that there is no real ultimate death thta emans the end of all things existing, but an endless wandering of souls from one existence to the next. :o
Deadline. :haha: Ultimatum. :har:

I have said a few times by now..my critics against EU is NOT based on right-alt information. It's based on Danish and Swedish MSM(Main Stream Media) throughout the years.

And you are correct it isn't EU who have forced Denmark to kill all it's mink...this only a Danish decision. Which have lead to a political scandal never seen before not on this side of WWII.
The Danish Prime minister and 4-5 more could very well be impeached. The chances are high.

Markus

Dear Skybird, i thought you knew this but since it seems that no, i will one last time try to explain it, and you do not need to quote Farage or go to your propaganda extremes to try to belittle advantages of the EU just for you, or Johnson's ego.

I usually can stroll over a foreign country land "that belongs to someone else", yes, this is called "tourism", sight-seeing, extending one's horizon, interest etc.. Sometimes you might even talk to the people living there (gasp!)

The EU has made this easier: Since the EU you can travel relatively freely, you do not need to ask for visa months ahead of your intended visit, or have to report to an official registration office to get a time-restricted permit and a stamp on it to be acknowledged in case of police controls. And they may keep your passport, until you leave.
Welcome back to the bad old times eh?

If you are a brit travelling across Europe on a vacation, or work there, or live there, and get sick, you instantly get the same or better treatment like in the UK, freely, because this has been managed by EU international treaties. Niot after 2021 of course. Any Brit living in Spain or somewhere will now have to go to the UK for medical treatment, or privately pay for it in the EU.

And yes I can ask for work anywhere in the EU on territory that does not belong to me, and no one has to accept me. But if i am good at the job, they might even hire me, and then i am automatically allowed to live there for the employment time. And it would not make much sense otherwise.

So you say the EU would say that
a) i can only travel over ground that belongs to me

b) i can only ask for work on grounds that belong to me?
c) a company has to accept me just because i want to work there?
d) If the others don't want me they have to employ me?
Are you completely nuts? Quite a strange perception of reality.

Blahblah, do you write Farage's public ejaculations?
What does this have to do with the EU? Do you think the EU allows you to enter or camp on other's private property anywhere?
Are you nuts? Where is this written?

I have not quoted Farrange, I do not belittle advantages of the EU, and I do not speak in place of Johnson'S intentions. Its just that I question your quoted EU advantages a bit more than you can step back from yourself and your views, to check yourself from a distance.

So what is your point? I'm all fine with that as long as the peple fo the place do not obejct to tourists. What I object to is your implication that tourists have any sort of natural right to travel through other people's lands and homes. You take it for granted. It isn't. You need permission. And sometimes even formalised in a visa. And even with a visa you need the inherent tolernace of the place'S people. They wll let you feel whether your presence is tolerated or whether you are most unwelcomed.


Nations inside the EU zone agreed to formal simplifications. They also have any right there could be imagned to leave the block and say no to these and other house rules of thre block. Like they can also demand you to pay in their national currency if you are in their country. And you know what? Its not even a big deal. You just blow it up to the proportions of a big deal.But it isn'T. Its a complete upblown luxury problem.


Also, security and border controls are a no brainer. I say this by referring to policemen I knew in the past, but it does not need a rocket scionetiist tio figure out that if you leave borders uncontrolled, you should not be surprised to see border-crossing crime blossoming. Today much more effort needs to be invested to achhieve smaller successes - andn this with limtied polrice ressoruces and strained personell levels and an overloaded justice apparatus. Security, fighting border-crossing crime, definetely has suffered. Say the practitioners - what politicians want it to appear as - a success story, of course -, I do not care.

Dont think your head hot on behalf of the Britons. You must not figure out what you think they should take as their best self interest, they do that all by themselves. These are grown up people. Let them live with the consequences of their decision, may they be good or bad.


No disagreement from me. But you first posted it as if they could work just where you want even if you have not been asked for. At least you came over like this.


I pointily summarised the essence of what in legal theory sometimes is referred to as "natural law". The right for private property, which excludes others laying claim for what is naturally yours. And that freedom of any sort only makes sense if understood as a property law again: you may be free to talk your mind, but you must "own" the situation and time when you do so, you cannot just burst into somebody's privatesphere and start holding a lecture, you need a consensually agreed opportunity or you must rent a place, hall, house for a given time, and then step onto the stage.

You may want to travel another country of whose community you are no part of. But you must have the people's per mission. Your wish must not autom atically be a command for them to accept you and let you in. You seem to take that as grnated. But you shouldn't.

Watch your tongue.



And at least try to understand what I was pointing at. Its pretty basic principles that all fair law must base on, else the law becomes an injustice in themselves.

---

Even from inside the EU political circles there now came criticism a short time ago that the negotiation strategy of the EU was meant to be destructive from beginning on. That the EU must no give up its own fair interests, is clear, and I even stated that explicitly last year during the brexit debates we had in the forum. But the EU is not satisfied with haiving the UK as a third party nation being treated like any foreign nation in future trades, but time and again raised demands that were designed to demand more from it, on the grounds of that geographcial closeness were a reason why the UK had to accept obeying EU demands that other non-block nations are not demanded to accept. The EU raises double standards here, and implies to still have a claim for authority over the UK's soon internal and sovereign issues. I never demanded the EU to allow cherry-picking by the Brits or to make a deal full of concessions, but fact is the EU all the time demanded concessions and concessions from the UK that were penetrating the Brexit's very purpose, and raised hurdle after obstacle to make life as miserable for the UK after Brexit as possible. The eu wants to prevent that the UK could be successful with an (economic) Brexit, because then it would be the precedent that doing your thing without the EU is not only possible, but even maybe better. The EU wants to make sure that the british must fail and crawl back under the EU's paternalistic umbrella.

Not giving the other advantages for free, is one thing. Wanting to force him accepting disadvantages only to show that he cannot manage things himself, that is something very different. And the EU is so full and guilty of this split tongue-talking that it hurts the mind.

It should be about both sides doing their things independently, and havign trading relations where both agree to have trade, and maybe cooperating opportunistcially in tehcnology prjects and on anti crime operations, exhcnging anit-terror intel and such. But the EU cannot leave it to that, it demands concessions that undermine British then-sovereignty and open backdoors again for EU bodies to interfere with UK's internal policy-makings, that way leaving a space open for pushing EU legislation in once again, for example on migration.

Its underhanded.

The eu also wants to prevent unwanted competition on tax policies. Being a socialist plundering and high tax and redistribution paradise, the British thread of turning London into a low tax haven and by that forcing a healthy competition between both tax regimes, would demand the EU to become less money-wasting and basing on endless inflation of money and collecting ever more taxes, namely in Germany. EU member states living of high taxes only, are economically anythign but healthy, and are not fit to meet competition even if this comepition would be good for the citizens who are beign robbed by their govenrments like crazy. Belgium and Germany have the highest tax regimes in the world. Its insane what gets collected in taxes and compulsary charges in Germany so that politicians can keep on runnign their show on stage. So, here is another motive why the EU is so destructive in the UK negotiations.

Please note, nothing in what I say here is in explicit defence of Johnson, or Farrange. Linking me to them leads - nowhere. I cannot even stand them. I just am much more willign than you are, catfish, to also see things through the other'S eyes, and to not mistake my advantages with their fair self-interests and natural rights. You oftehn claim you are critical of this and that in the eU and that it mjust be reformed and you kinwo what, but in the end yohj always end up by pushign for accepting the Eu as it is, igonrign that it cnanot be realistcoally reformed, and if nobody wpould move and breath, then the house of cards will hold together for the future, sure. I do not see your verbal claims and the EU things you nevertheless accept or defend, beign in congruence, and that is why I so often have problems with you and see you as quite provocative.

Johnson probably should not have signed that deal that he signed in the end, that he should not is indicated by that now he already needs to threaten to break it, that bad that agreement is. It should have been a no deal brexit from beginning on, without any ifs and buts. And I said that already when the whole thing began years ago. The EU has torpedoed any neutral arrangement from beginning on, and the British have bogged it down all by themselves, too. What a pitiful sight this battlefield is. And then came Corona, as an equivalent of a heaven-sent fog of war... One could fall into a delirium over all this.

What sources are these videos from, the speaker so obviously being a robot? Quite some of them have been posted recently.

I think European Union is a fact of life and not going away. The concerns about over reaching power into the States business is nothing new to us. We battle over the same thing with our federal government. Things will be ironed out behind the scenes in order to maintain the Union and keep the states relatively content.

As for the Brits they live on an island and in a deeply divided Kingdom over Brexit. I dont think they will survive very long in isolation as a 'rebel' State. Its only a matter of time before the Brits are pressured to see the light and succumb to the will of the European Union who I'm sure is already making plans to guide them back into the fold.

I'm sure it will be portrayed as a happy occasion filled with tears of joy and glad tidings. But it will without a doubt most definitely solidify the Unions existence and position in the region. There is strength in numbers.

UK News Today on You Tube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxd...UJ2vo1s1a6DMPg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaVPzzWZBJA

The internal fighting continues unabated apparently.

Hmm, yes, a YouTube channel, also something on Pinterest.
No name or responsibility, run by some "Sandra F" who can be anyone or anything. Sister channel is US News today.
Intro looks professional, but anyone can create a "channel" on YouTube today and spread his word and opinion; i'd be reluctant to take this for gospel.
EU panicking? Not really. That is what Johnson would like to see of course.

edit: As usual the comments show who watches this stuff.

Yes, but who is behind that? Can'T you Brits speka yourn won engish? Why is one of your news outlets, if it is that, using a speech bot? You cna sometimes notie the typical accoustic distoprtions in prnounciation that reveal the machien sourc eof the spoken word, it remind sof how voice generators worked ten or twenty years ago.

Could be a bot station from an unrevealed hidden player, my suspicion is. Russia. They have an obvious interest in rattling the moods up in Britain, and are a big number in propaganda and infiltration. China as well, but I think the Russians come first here.

The "robotic" voice sure reminded me of a similar channel run by RT.