Just saying :hmmm:

^^ re post 12341: http://theconversation.com/palestine...le-east-106408

edit: Apart from Corbyn's peronality and his political leaning along with some of the party, things are much more complex. Of course you can look at an assassination and no one will deny that this is awful and causes innocent civilians' casualties. But this is seeing it as an isolated moment in history without context to what happened before. There are some underlying reasons, even if some want to forget it.

Those suicidal attacks are awful and idiotic, and they are also an act of despair. Israel just builds its settlements everywhere, especially in disputed areas, and thus creates a status quo that cannot be changed anymore.

Did i ever say "read 'The little drummer girl' by LeCarrée", less than ten times i mean.
There is guilt to be found everywhere, but all just go on killing and denying, and never sit down together to find a solution. This will all get more bitter, and more of such things happening.

Catfish, the the shifts and swings in culure over the past 50-60 years in the Anglosphere (English speaking nations) have been a little different to those of continental Europe.
It is indeed easier to understand how we reached this point if you live here.
the shift to a more pro nationalist (but thankfully still quite liberal) postion is a reaction to a reaction to a reaction.. you have have to really trace it all back over the best part of a century because its not surface level.
Everything from the Church, the hippies, the punks, Thatcherism /Regansim, globalism, civil rights movements, feminsm, mass-immigration, middle class expansion, 2008 crash & Austerity the econimic switch from industry to services and rise of technology (gasps for breath) all plays a part.

None of this current shift is particuarlly suprising, ultimatley one set of values collapes when it has failed too many people -and another swoops in.
The more socialist/interationalist progressives types hung them selves by over preaching morality though the lense of intersectionality and increasingly condemmed anyone who didnt tow the line.

It translated in to a situation where a successful accademic cosmopolitian middle class now had the means to berate and brow beat a less educated working class majority and appear moraly superior while doing it :)

E.g Your culture and values are horrible, tear down the borders' toxic masculinity this, white privilige that, and if you love the nation or ANY non progressive values we are going to insinuate that you are far right' etc.
Try 10-20 years of that^ being thrown about through Academia, social media, pop culture and politics on a regular basis -and presented as the only truley acceptable world view to hold, ....what did we think what going come of that? progressive utopia? Its no way to get people on your side.

It muddied the waters between nationalists, old skool liberals and conservatives and pretty much drove them in to an unholy alliance.
I dont think its strictly a right/left divide in the most traditonal sense, its something that evolved (or devolved) from that. but its something a little bit different. Unironic comparisons with Nazis and Soviets doesnt really apply.

We should have had this much fairer system in place years ago had we been allowed.

^Yes. And Germany should adopt one, too.

Instead, meanwhile a leaked EU document shows that the EU still seems to nt hav eunderstood what time it is. In the paper some of the negotiation goals of the EU were outlined, amongst them far-reaching rights of the EU court in case of conflicts, end enforcment of EU standards in certain labour-, tax- and production areas where the eU wants to prevent the UK to become competitive and challenging the eU by offering better offers and stanards in competition for talents, investors, and producers.

I hope Johnson plays all this as tough as he has claimed, because what is despertaely needed is that the continent is pushed out of its tyrannical and oppressive complecancy. However, I think that the clash with Trump'S America will be a hard one, and the UK has the weaker cards here. Americna negotiators so far have left no doubt that they demand far-reaching access to the health sector. The most likely scenario is that Us investors will leave the maintenance and running costs to the tax payers, and shave off as much of the crema as possible. This only can be acchieved by letting patients die and suffer. - When I still held stocks, I had an eye on that never any health-service providing company was amongst them, for i consider it to be deeply immoral. To please investors, profits need to be generated, and thta can only be had at eithe reducing services while keeping the price, which kills and lets people suffer, or by keeping the service and raising the costs, which lets people die and suffering, or by investing on the basis of making debts and leave the paying back of these to the tax payer, which lets the public footing the bill. Business with the uS is a strong pillar of the UK economy, and Trump is not known for playing fair, balanced, or having a moral character. The dependency on the US will cost the UK dearly here.

The Yanks are n ot your friends, dear Brits! They will formdiably abuse your dependency on getting a deal done with you. You know what they say: when it comes to money, all friendship soon ends. Take the conflict over gas from Russia as an example. Hypocrisy and economy-political brutality at its finest.

Thats what every deal is-

You gets new job, you try to get abit more than what you think you're worth, but your boss tries to give you a bit less than what they think you're worth.
Not displaying charity doesnt nessicarily mean they are not your friend in every sense of the word. I see no reason why the US or anyone should be expected to put our intreasts before their own. And if we feel abused, we can always say no, (not that we ever do say no to America really)

But its not like we will all be starving to death if we are just trading with the US on WTO terms for a prolonged period.
Anyway of all the things going on at present I cant say this one worries me too much.

I know the future of EU, Europe and UK.

There is two problems

Getting everything down in writing(all I have in my head)
Getting you to believe it.

Markus

What on earth are this government doing? :nope:

It's got the China syndrome written all over Boris again, I remember Bozo the Brain Dead making some dubious business deals with Chinese businesses when he was mayor of London, never trust a Tory when they have the scent of money in their nostrils. :har::har::har:

Big questions for Boris over billion dollar property deal
https://www.channel4.com/news/boris-...na-albert-dock

It did nothing, it just bowed to tremendous Chinese threats, pressure and intimdiation, and after Brexit it cannot afford to piss the Chinese as a trade partner and business market. China is slowly taking over major parts of Europe. No longer they act cautiously. The satin gloves have been taken off. They feel they now can afford to kick in doors instead of just endlessly knocking. And looking at how dependent European companies are on the Chinese market, they probably are right.

Europe since the 80s allowed to dance with the devil. l But iof you dance with the devil, you do not makle the devil dancing to your tune. the devil forces you to dance to his.

The EU has eyed the British decision-forming on this carefully - and immediately reiterated that they too do not want to ban Huawei completely. Its also as one of those increadibly precious and incredibly important symbolic acts to piss the US, if not in substance so then at least in - well, in symbolic nonsense.

And Germany officially still pays China formal developement aid. :doh: No joke, no hook, no irony - its really so.

When I was in China in 2008, all the taxi cabs were Volkswagons.

Friday they will all magically turn into Austins

https://i.imgur.com/wPY8Fhwl.jpg

It will be a decade or more before the scars heal.

JU88 wrote:
If you want to set e.g. England = USA .. but i'd say that the US is taking a different way, not only because of a lacking monarchy. The basic idea there is that people are free, about equality, schools, and there is no class divide as it is in England. Australia, India, lots of other "anglosphere" countries with other mindsets. What i think is that England has a problem with itself.

So you say some who voted for brexit perceive it in the way you describe it like that:

"a situation where a successful accademic cosmopolitian middle class now had the means to berate and brow beat a less educated working class majority and appear moraly superior while doing it"

But honestly, what some "perceive" or "think is happening" does not have to do much with reality.

England lived quite well with the raised eyebrows and suppression of your upper classes for centuries without complaining too much or really challenging that, and now you accuse exactly who?

"The more socialist/interationalist progressives types hung them selves by over preaching morality though the lense of intersectionality and increasingly condemmed anyone who didnt tow the line"

Well if you see it that way, i do not. What you wrote here is in a way the enlightenment that has been missing in England. But not in the US, or Australia, or even India. In the other "anglosphere" as you described non-Europe, there is a lot more "internationalism" than you seem to think.

Maybe saying this aloud and supporting international cooperation is not wanted in England? Indeed, when i look at the types of Farage, Cummings or Rees-Mogg there is indeed another part which does not want "internationalism". But how would you describe those other than right-wing?

"I dont think its strictly a right/left divide in the most traditonal sense, its something that evolved (or devolved) from that. but its something a little bit different."

Different, in a negative sense, yes.

"Unironic comparisons with Nazis and Soviets doesnt really apply."

Whatever you mean with that :hmmm:



edit: question, why does this editor always include lots of empty lines between paragraphs? :doh: I have to re-edit every longer post to compress the text to a readable form.

On the Huawei deal, maybe relevant for Britain as well: Spiegel reports the German government was given evidence by US intel services that the Germans rate as "smoking gun"-quality evidence that HUAWEI closely cooperates with the Chinese intelligence services. This was always put into doubt by those wanting the deal with the Chinese. The German document is confidential, but in the interior ministry is seen as a basis for internally now stating that any basis of a trusting cooperation with Huawei in building the German G5 net must be seen as completely unfounded and is non-existing.

https://translate.google.de/translat...4-8c725398d4e0

I wonder whether the british govenrment was given this information as well, and ignored it, or has been excluded from getting access to it (then one asks why Washington refused to share it with its close friends, the special-relation-Britons), or whether the German government has been lied to by forged evidence, and fell for a trap.

Personally I tend to think that the Chinese of course use their tech companies as extended tools for their spying and potential sabitage ambitions. OF COURSE. Thats why they should not been given access to critical infrastructure (and that is difficult to define in case of G5, I learned months ago, many decision-makers seem to not have understood it correctly, and even hardware specilaists knowing G5 well have no shared consensus on what goes and what not).I am convinced of this like I am convinced of that American tech and software companies serve the US demand for intel services producing industrial and military and political espionage results as well by creating backdoors, surveillance, and manipulation and remote access options. . We should not trust Huawei and other Chinese tech giants. But we should not trust Microsoft, Apple, Google, HP, Dell and the likes as well.

^ Even limited access can be used as a tool for widening the beachhead later on, or as an opportunity to conduct blackmailing due to the dependency on Chinese exertise for maintaining those partsopf the G5 network they were allowed to provide.

Considering the high importance of G5, which is hard to be overestimated, we should not allow raising unneeded risks just for the purpose of being seen as "polite". No Chinese participation, that means. There are two companies that could fill the gap, although they are a bit more expensive and not yet as technically advanced as Huawei's 5G components, and both have the charm to not be Chinese but also not being American: Sweden's Ericsson, and Finland's Nokia

Its a no-brainer, I think. The British government's decision is a big mistake, imo.

This Friday will be the day.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-51287430

When the president of the EU Commission says that, it sounds like a threat.