SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - UK Politics Thread

More turmoil for Labour?

Is Scottish Labour's position on independence changing?

Senior Scottish Labour figures back second referendum as party grassroots discuss future

If I remember correctly, Keir Hardie was in favour of Home Rule for Scotland (and Ireland) but that was more in line with his belief in International Socialism, not nationalism.:hmmm:

As a small history lesson, here's the reading for the Government of Scotland Bill, 1913 from Hansard: LINK.

A BBC Scotland article about the bill from 2014: LINK.

Moving onto current discussions, here's Douglas Fraser's (Business/economy editor, BBC Scotland) latest article:

What role could the economy play in indyref2?

Quote:

A combination of Brexit and heightened expectations of another Scottish independence referendum have brought economic arguments back to the fore.
Some arguments will be familiar from 2014, but important factors have changed: the rest of the UK is no longer 'the status quo' option.
Choices made at Westminster would force an iScotland into stark choices between its biggest market, to the south, and a European future. But do the economic arguments matter?

Brian Taylor's (Political editor, BBC Scotland) latest article:

Analysis: A mandate for Scottish independence?

Quote:

The issue of mandates has a venerable pedigree in Scottish politics. Venerable, but not always clear and sharp.
During a previous period of Scottish Labour frustration, the late Donald Dewar briefly flirted with the suggestion that the Tories had no mandate to govern Scotland, given their relative lack of MPs north of the border.
It swiftly occurred to the astute Mr Dewar that this was not an argument which sat at all easily with a Unionist perspective. It was duly dumped in favour of another more straightforward push for devolved self-government.
At the core of the Dewar dilemma there was a philosophical and psephological problem.
By challenging the Tory mandate, he was positing an argument based upon the presumption that Scottish voting held unique and unchallenged sway.
A supporter of the Union will always argue - must always argue - that the Scottish perspective sits within and alongside the concerns of that wider UK electorate.

Mike.:hmmm:

Jimbuna

12-17-19 01:38 PM

Quote:

General election 2019: Defeated MPs set for £2m 'golden goodbye'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50826472

Disgraceful!! :nope:

Jimbuna

12-17-19 02:21 PM

Quote:

Hoyle re-elected Commons Speaker as MPs return.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50828196

Certainly can't be any worse than the last incumbent.

https://i.postimg.cc/sDvyW7R2/794690...06099968-o.jpg

Jimbuna

12-18-19 06:55 AM

Quote:

Labour "pursued a path of almost comic indecision" over Brexit during the election and "alienated both sides of the debate", Tony Blair has said.

In a speech in London, the ex-PM said he believed the party could have kept much of the vote in traditional Labour areas under a different leadership.

The situation was "made impossible by failure to take a clear position and to stick to it", Mr Blair said.

"The result has brought shame on us. We let our country down," he added.

Jeremy Corbyn told MPs on Tuesday that he "took responsibility" for Labour's worst electoral performance, in terms of seats won, since 1935.

He has said he will stand down as leader "early next year".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50829352

I should imagine Blair took great delight in sticking the boot in and love him or hate him he is well qualified being one of if not the most successful Labour leaders in the parties history.

Jimbuna

12-18-19 07:17 AM

Quote:

Sir Keir Starmer has told the BBC he is "seriously considering" standing to be the next Labour leader.

The shadow Brexit secretary said Labour has "a mountain to climb" following its general election defeat.

Another potential contender Yvette Cooper said she would "decide over Christmas" about whether to stand.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50834286

I don't rate his chances on the grounds he is not far left enough for Momentum who continue to have a vice-like grip on the party.

Jimbuna

12-18-19 08:07 AM

Oh boy, what I would have given to have been present at that meeting.

Quote:

Jeremy Corbyn faced "fury" from Labour MPs as they confronted him for the first time since Labour's disastrous election result.

He was challenged by backbenchers and those who lost seats in a meeting struck by "collective depression" after leading the party to its worst result in decades.

Jess Phillips, who is tipped as a potential successor to Mr Corbyn, emerged to say "it was no worse than it always is" and recalled "a couple of people being supportive".

She read a text from Melanie Onn - who lost Great Grimsby for Labour to the Tories - about how she had been "let down by the leadership and the frontbench".

Veteran Labour MP Dame Margaret Hodge told reporters "on the whole it was fury, despair, miserable and I just felt that the top table had corporate amnesia".

Mary Creagh also told Sky News that after losing her seat of Wakefield to the Conservatives she confronted Mr Corbyn in parliament.

She said campaign bosses were choosing where to send activists based on candidates' "ideological purity and their closeness to the leadership - rather than on the basis of whether or not they were in a position to help form a Labour government".

Lucy Powell, another Labour backbencher, told Sky News "everyone was really down" and that the room was full of "collective depression".

And MP Wes Streeting tackled Mr Corbyn for reportedly claiming Labour had won the argument.

"You don't win the argument and lose the election - not just lose the election but crash to the worst defeat since 1935," he told Sky News afterwards.

Addressing the group of 203 Labour MPs, it is understood Mr Corbyn apologised for last week's result and said "I take responsibility".

He blamed the Conservatives and news organisations for managing to "persuade many that only Boris Johnson could 'get Brexit done'".

"We must now listen to those lifelong Labour voters who we've lost," the Labour leader said. "I believe that Brexit was a major - although not the only - reason for their loss of trust in us."

He reiterated his plan to stand down when a new leader has been elected by party members, and Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle said "not one person said go right now".
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...id=mailsignout

Jimbuna

12-18-19 08:51 AM

I'm sure many on here will remember this guy crashing in on many a live televised interview outside Parliament.

Quote:

A political activist known as “Brexit man” has decided to stop protesting after two years in the wake of the Conservative Party's landslide election win.

Steve Bray had become a well known figure outside Westminster for his persistent call to “stop Brexit.”

But, after heckling MPs, journalists and Leave voters since September 2017, Mr Bray ended his protest after last Thursday's general election result.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson campaigned on a platform of “getting Brexit done”.

As Mr Johnson returned to Parliament on Wednesday, Mr Bray said: “The fight goes on but our future campaigning will be about holding government to account and when the proverbial s*** kicks in, we will look into how we can get back into the EU," according to the Metro.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsl...id=mailsignout

https://i.postimg.cc/v8Ns4Y3W/1-Scre...-15-140338.jpg

STEED

12-18-19 09:05 AM

^Yea lazy sod, get a job.

Fed up with that loud mouth fart from day one. Naff off to the EU Parliament and clean their toilets.

And now lets get :haha: at the news of...

Quote:

Shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry has become the first MP to officially enter the race to replace Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50834286

I MAY NOT STOP....:har::har::har::har:

Oh I am laughing at these far left loonies popping up on the news declaring the nameless one is great and cool and rebuilt Labour and did so well....Oh man these fools are so in never never land.

Jimbuna

12-18-19 09:52 AM

By my reckoning the next leader will probably be a woman but not Thornberry, perhaps a younger contender.

STEED

12-18-19 10:06 AM

Just listening the radio and some one from "stop the war coalition" want a more radical far left leader for labour as the nameless one was to central! I nearly choked on my drink laughing. :haha:

STEED

12-18-19 10:35 AM

https://media.makeameme.org/created/...4527e7a545.jpg

Jimbuna

12-18-19 11:24 AM

https://i.postimg.cc/bJrfNrSS/791563...64491776-n.jpg

Jimbuna

12-18-19 11:27 AM

Quote:

The government's Brexit bill will enable more British judges to depart from previous rulings of the EU's top court, Downing Street says.

The PM's spokesman said the Withdrawal Agreement Bill would expand this power to courts below the Supreme Court.

He added this would ensure judges at lower courts would not be "inadvertently" tied to the rulings "for years to come".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50840595

I was wondering if something along these lines might be on the cards.

'Lessons learnt' and all that.

Jimbuna

12-18-19 08:31 PM

Quote:

Shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry has become the first MP to officially enter the race to replace Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50834286

https://i.postimg.cc/90BhmQGv/807039...58253056-o.jpg

Reece

12-19-19 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED (Post 2640909)

^Yea lazy sod, get a job.

Fed up with that loud mouth fart from day one. Naff off to the EU Parliament and clean their toilets.

And now lets get :haha: at the news of...

I MAY NOT STOP....:har::har::har::har:

Oh I am laughing at these far left loonies popping up on the news declaring the nameless one is great and cool and rebuilt Labour and did so well....Oh man these fools are so in never never land.

Good post STEED you should get a medal for that! :up:

Catfish

12-19-19 05:31 AM

"The government's Brexit bill will enable more British judges to depart from previous rulings of the EU's top court, Downing Street says."

I take it the first change will be workers rights. And i do not mean foreign workers or immigrants. Longer working times, less money. Financing brexit has to come from somewhere.

Jimbuna

12-19-19 06:19 AM

The Tory manifesto pledged no decrease in workers rights.

Jimbuna

12-19-19 06:27 AM

Quote:

Scotland's first minister has called on the UK government to negotiate a transfer of powers to Holyrood to allow another referendum on independence.

Nicola Sturgeon said there was an "unarguable" mandate for a new vote after her SNP won 48 of Scotland's 59 seats in last week's general election.

She said a document containing her arguments and draft legislation will be sent to the UK government today.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson remains opposed to holding another referendum.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-50843024

I'm not sure how this will eventually pan out but as I have said consistently 'Allow them their referendum and if the vote for leave wins they should understand they cannot use the pound sterling and they should also prior agree to taking with them a pre-agreed share of the national debt'

Catfish

12-19-19 06:32 AM

A manifesto and a pledge to get votes, by the Tories just of all. Good luck to see that happen.
Whatever, the fight will happen in England, not in Brussels.

Jimbuna

12-19-19 07:02 AM

Only time will tell Kai, as things currently stand Boris has been given a large majority by the electorate so must be given the opportunity to prove himself.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:38 AM.

Page 610 of 718

610

Show 20 post(s) from this thread on one page