I understand Ubi's position, and it's nice that he replied. Must not be easy to see the revolt, I'll give him that. We all love the series, that hasn't changed. He did forget however that we can accept something like Steam and gamers worldwide already have. I do not like being told as if we don't accept any of these distribution/authentication networks and are to be responsible for the end of Ubisoft or the world ending in 2012.

You don't catch a thief by filtering out and chaining all the innocents. That's not something I associate with the plunk-plunk-plunk-plunk logo I still find very nice to see when I start a game.

We are angry with good reason, don't tell us we are responsible for the end of pc-gaming, because we are not. That would be the pirates and game industry itself for releasing below standard games. I'm not saying SH5 is one of those, because it has yet to be released. See? I'm not jumping to conclusions, and neither should this dev. Respect is a two way street.

Moo

Relax Bad Pirate, I've said the same things a few times. As long as you don't say "I can't wait for the game to be cracked", or "I won't buy the game, I'll crack it" you're not offending anyone. Piracy is a fact, just like child pornography. You can talk about it here, but not encourage it :O:

As for the UBM addon, they quickly bundled it with SH4 back in 2008. I own such a copy. One disk.. pretty neat.

If it can be made by humans, it can be cracked by humans. Overly invasive DRM like this will do nothing to deter the pirates. In fact, it will inspire them. Ubi has thrown down the gauntlet, and they will respond. This thing will be cracked within hours of release, if not before.

dcb is right - the carrot and stick approach is the way to go. Giving people a reason to legitimately own the game is a lot more effective than trying to discourage illegitimate ownership. Extra bonuses included with the game - a HUGE and comprehensive manual, a free copy of a book on the Battle of the Atlantic, a miniature U-boat model...things like that would certainly deter the people who have a true interest in the game from just simply pirating it. It probably wouldn't work for the hardcore pirate for life types, but we're back to my first point now - NO system will stop them. Might as well just license something that everyone is already comfortable with, like Steamworks and go from there.

Thanks, karamazovnew :salute::yeah:

No we wouldn't have a clear picture of what piracy is actually detracting from the sales. There are several reasons for it:

1.- You would add the sales of the current pirates who have money & interest in the game, and would buy it. But you would also need to detract the number of legit users that will not buy the game because of the intrusive protection system. Like me :hmmm:.

2.- You would need the opposite situation to compare, and that means either SH2, 3 or 4. But none of those is comparable. Today internet is more widely spreaded, as are game stores in many countries, as is in general the consumer base. SH5 would sale to legit users more than SH3 to legit users, just because there are currently more users in total. Plus from what we have seen so far, the scope of the game might have actually changed a bit, in arcade direction.

In all, it looks to me as if SH5 is follwoing the trend of modern mass-sales games: Unfinished product, quick thrill, more arcade, less depth, please a more naive crowd, attract more pirates, and as such need to take stronger security measures against them.

All the previous SH2,3 &4 ended up in the bargain bin with DRM removed, so I guess you can say that:

-The more pure simulator, the less appealing to masses and more to serious, mature simulator enthusiasts with money, who will buy it. Simulators have the peculiarity of continue selling very well after their prime time date. Hell, SH1 is still being sold today!! Thus, removing protection is considered OK when you adress the mature simulator enthusiast who is not looking at the latest release, but at a good product. And will buy it.

-The more arcade, the more appealing to the wide crowd, with less money and always willing to rip it pirate like.

The silent hunter series is, regretably, facing in the wrong direction....:nope:

Here's a good article on piracy and its exaggerated impact:

http://www.mawhorter.net/general/pir...f-lost-profits

HItman, I wasn't talking about SH5. I was talking about the future line of games that UBI will release in the coming year.

RUSE
World in Conflict Soviet Assault
Splinter Cell Conviction
Assassin's Creed 2
PoP

This was released a while ago as an expansion?:hmmm:

RELEASE DATE: 13/03/2009

Sorry, that pretty much shows how much I care about that game :haha:

@ bad pirate_

interesting info about a side I never got in touch with.
do you think that publishers like UBI have contacts in there? or do they at least try to gain information about this scene?

Oh yes they can, I remember early versions of 3d studio max used to require a dongle.
it was cracked in no time with simple 20kb patch.

This thread makes me sad, because that mail can only mean SHV will have the nextgen DRM. Why should he defend it, otherwise.

And it didn't change my position by an inch. He repeats only old, flawed arguments pro DRM.

Really sad. So no SHV and probably no Storm Of War for me.

Did you stop at that point in my post or read on
:rotfl2:

I said they would just change the exe to ignore a dongle
As they do now anyway

:yeah:

Had to reply to this.

Games are cheap. $50 is expensive? Anyone who thinks a PC game is expensive should move out of Mom's basement. Seriously.

That's why I think the piracy numbers as it relates to sales are bogus. Games are already cheaper than a single night out for a few beers and some chow.

A very good question, Sir. USB / serial dongle keys used to be somewhat expensive, and were only found with some hi-end / professional applications in the past. But nowadays? I'm pretty sure you could manufacture a carpload of them quite reasonably...

Haaallooo UBI, now how's _that_ for a DRM solution??? :up:

EDIT / PS. But as others have already pointed out, uncrackable they're not. Still better than nothing IMHO - and nowadays cheap too.

Its "reds under the beds" time again....except this season it's pirates!

Yehar me mateys! Shiver me DRMs.

Err I stopped at that point, :oops: Im good at that :D

I don't think so......
Seeing as they are trying to impose these measures, I don't even think they try!
What they are saying there is what we are saying here. They are a funny bunch to hang out. Most have they multiplayer clans, competitions, one-on-one, they discuss released games, how long is it, is it stable, buggy, game story, tips & tricks, nothing "terroristic" about them...
After all, it's all common sense... Critics are always welcome!
Thing is, pirates are a scapegoat, an excuse for mediocre product quality that is being served today, as opposed to what it used to be.

Let me ask you something:
I make a car, call it GTX Turbo, and say:
This car has all the premium features like wheel turning, headlight, breathtaking design on speedometer, last-gen handbrake. But, to support me, you will have to pay additional 35$ for seatbelt and radio player. Also, I restricted maximum speed to 60 km/h because I want YOU to drive how I want! And yes, ,it had integrated gps system so i can track you whenever you use you car, so that i know you are using it.
But you brought another car instead that does not have these limitations, but the point is, YOU STOLE FROM ME! You sir, did not buy my car, but another, and I see that you did not give me your money. So I blame you for everything.
See the pattern? :smug:
No?
Me a dev, you a customer, car a game, limited features and restrictions....
Not a good comparison, but still awesome!
Here's something to think about, not related to discussion...
http://www.cracked.com/article_16404...ever-made.html

No more off topic from me.

NOTE: cracked.com is a humor site, not a software piracy.... thing....

P.S. Some countries are very poor, like where I am, so I am a pirate!
I have a job that is paid 260 a month.
It's all expensive and you're just living to survive.
Take bills, expenses and food, you don't have much to spend.
10-15e game I can afford. 50 euro game, not a chance in hell....

I applaud the dev in the OP for his great points, even though I do not applaud the OP himself for posting it here without the dev's permission.
You do realize, of course, that this is an incredibly flawed analogy.

John, did you clear this with the person about publishing his private message?