I am sorry, I just do not buy this argument that Palin is more experienced in public affairs simply because of her 2 years at executive level in Alaska. Obama has 12 years combined experience at both federal and national level as an elected official.

But, given that she does, why then is she been cocooned from the press while undergoing an extensive cramming program on current issues before her first debate with Biden. When Obama announced his run he took the press face on. Howcome she can't?

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/...008-09-06.html

From this.....

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...aar/walisa.jpg

To this....

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...whitehouse.jpg

And they say Obama is not qualified - yea, right:hmm:

@Von Tonner and Tchocky,

Obama has done two things....written two memoirs while in office. Sponsoring bills and writing laws....before we call out laziness on my part, please post up his earth shattering accomplishments while in the Senate. I do not consider writing two memiors that as doing something and getting experience to lead a country. I consider that being full of himself. Much the same feeling I get listening to his speeches. Both, McCain and Palin in their speeches stated they did this or accomplished that while in office. I have not heard any accomplishments while in the Senate in any of his speeches. Not to mention what he has done for the state of IL. Obama still does not have executive experience. He stands in the Senate building if he decides to show up and says 'AYE' or NAY. Is that executive experience? As far as Palins experience, you may not want to buy the two years an an excutive level but the fact remains, she has had the experience.Pouring over the state ledgers and making monetary decisions. Whether on the grand scale or not. Obama has not. Obama has not taken the press head on, the press has not really drilled Obama IMO. Obama is a ratings maker for the press. What media mogal wants to have a drop in ratings? The press for Obama is just lunacy. His trip to Europe was a media frenzy. No one has gone after his family like Palin, she has been made to look like a bad bad bad bad mother. Putting career first! Sexism is all that amounts too. She is firm on abortion. So firm that she still carried her child with Downs full term. She knew the child would have Downs. Statistics show 9 out of 10 women discovering their child has Downs will abort the pregnancy. Sounds like conviction in her beliefs to me. Then they went after her daughter. She made a mistake with here boyfriend. Again, dump on Palin. Then the Dems went after her husband who had a DUI. Good Lord, anything was far game for the Dems Sorry, guys, poor taste in my view coming from the Democates. The VP residence is 10 minutes from the White House. I guess she can get home to make dinner for the family. At least this how the Dems like to portray being a mother with a career should be. She can not do both? Give me a break, mothers do it all the time. I know, I live with one. Let the media continue this attack and women will vote McCain/Palin.

So, you see gents, we are in a catch 22. There will two forms of bias, Obama as being black and Palin as being a women. As far as the racisim card, I will have to say Obama has not pulled that card. Then again, I do not think he has been put in a postion to have to pull the card. No one in the media will broach that subject. Not even the idiot Michael Moore....as I watched him studder about it on TV last night when asked about it. However, the Dems will pull out the sexist innuendo and have done so. Obama said to leave that alone, I agree with him and respect him for that remark. However, the media which has driven this campaign and continue the attack on Palin will bury any chance of Obama getting the undecided womens vote.

Oh, and Oprah will not host Palin on her show. I guess that is her right because it is her show and does not want it to be a political platform. If that is the case, then why have Obama on and endorse him months ago? Hmmmmm, something is fishy here. Although I think Oprah is a nonfactor, to many millions who watch her everyday consider her a factor.

It is laziness, AVG. That's the only way to put it if all you can say is that he's written two books. Fair enough, writing a couple of books isn't a primer for the office of President, but that's not the only thing Obama has done in his life. You think it is, and you're wrong. And if you're saying he wrote two memoirs then you're flat wrong. Dreams from my Father is a memoir, The Audacity of Hope is a manifesto for the 2008 election. It's the only thing you can mention and you're wrong about it.

Ask yourself the same question of John McCain, what are his Senate accomplishments? The only way to answer that about either candidate is to look it up, and find out what the people around them have to say. Or just go to where I posted Obama's Senate record yesterday - http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...1&postcount=29
Hmm, that link doesn't seem to be working. Anyway, all you have to do is go to Advanced Search, pick your Congress, pick your Senator, check "Sponsor", and you'll have all the bills introduced by that person. It takes, at most, fifteen seconds.
Of course, you're free not to research. Democracy, and all that.
You consider writing two books to be "full of himself". What about John McCain, who's written four books (with ghostwriter Mark Salter) and had his own movie?

One thing I can admire is how John McCain steadfastly refuses to exploit his wartime service for political gain.


Then go find out for yourself. It's your vote. Don't wait for someone to tell you. It's because of attitudes like that that voters think the price of John Edwards' haircut was inportant. It's the worst thing for a democracy, and I've seen for too much of it in my own country to listen anymore.
Actually, he sponsors and introduces legislation. That's kind of what Senators are supposed to do. The people whose only job to show up and say YEA or NAY are the voters.
Again, what exactly do you mean by this? I've been hearing this point made over and over, but with no qualification of exactly what it is. Since John McCain is a Senator, does that mean that Palin has more experience than him?
Repost my earlier question - Quantified, what exact executive experience does 2-year governorship of 600,000 people confer that 4-year Senate representation of 12 million does not?
She left Wasilla twenty million dollars in debt. That's twenty million more than it had before she was Mayor. I suppose that counts as executive experience, making those bad decisions?
It was newsworthy. Any conversation of how the press loves Obama must be tempered with the fact that McCain had been their previous darling. I think such discussions are a bit silly, but complaining solely about the press not going after Obama is a flat-out denial of what's happened before, what is proven every time a newscaster calls McCain a "maverick".
I cqan't answer for everything that has been said about the Palin, naturally. But several things should be kept in mind.
1 - She went from a nobody to total celebrity in about 15 minutes. All the information came at once. Voters are looking for a narrative as well as a candidate, and Palin didn't have one that the public knew about. So reporters descended on Wasilla to find out things about her and her family.
2 - I absolutely despise the way she has used her children at this point. First she's crying out for the media to leave her children alone, that they're off-limits, then she won't shut up about her son heading out to Iraq. Listen to Obama on this one
3 - Serious case of bringing this on herself. Complaining about the media for most of the time, then declaring herself off-limits to interviews. The press is like anything else, it doesn't like being insulted/shunned. One of the main reasons McCain got off so lightly is that he gave reporters unprecedented access during the 2000 campaign, and for much of this one. Recently his press time has been extremely limited, and his staff have even rationed his cellphone use, as McCain was making too many slipups and unworkable promises.
If Palin won't answer any questions, the silly ones gain traction. She was selected in a hurry, and she'll spend the next two weeks being coached in how to debate and answer questions. If McCain had done things properly this would have been underway a few days before the pick. His first executive decision and he blew it, that's how I see it.


Obama appeared on her show twince, both times before he declared his candidacy. If she had him on after this, and then refused to interview Palin, there might be a story. As the facts are, there really isn't one.

I think all four candidates are qualified for the positions that they seek. They all offer varying levels of experience, judgement and integrity.

It should be a fun 8 weeks.

I love your spunk Von Tonner (and many of your threads too), but if the Obama camp used your slide show above they would lose the election.

George Bush won the election in 2000 just from the rural areas of our country alone. True, that little chad problem in Florida put him over, but it was the rural areas that became the meat of his winning ticket.

Al Gore won every major city in America, but yet lost in his on home state of Tennesee and then of course lost the entire election with the elctorial votes.

One more point ... Obama has already made a lot of hillbillys angry with the comment about their guns and bibles in the primiries.

I venture that there are many democrats and republicans still undecided on who to vote for ... the next 58 days will be exciting to watch no matter which side your on. :yep:

Ok, lets do it by the numbers:

http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/08/28/...as-experience/


You couldn't get a job at McDonalds and become the district manager after 143 days of experience.

You could not become the surgeon general after 143 days of experience as a surgeon.

You couldn't join the military and become a colonel after a 143 days of experience.

You couldn't get a job as a reporter and become the nightly news anchor after 143 days of experience.

BUT....

From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United State Senator, to the time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he logged 143 days of experience in the Senate. That's how many days the Senate was actually in session and working. After 143 days of work experience, Obama believed he was ready to be Commander In Chief, Leader of the Free World .... 143 days. We all have to start somewhere. The senate is a good start, but after 143 days, that's all it is - a start. AND, strangely, a large sector of the American public is okay with this and campaigning for him. We wouldn't accept this in our own line of work, yet some are okay with this for the President of the United States of America?

That is the truth. No matter what is said on this forum, on TV spots, in the media etc, it is the independants and undecided on both side of the aisles that are going to decide this contest. I just hope the dice falls on my side of the bridge though:D and that after it, we move on.

@ AVG: Your numbers are interesting, and true. That said, the requirement for each of those jobs are fairly well established, and you have to convince the powers that be to give you that promotion.

For the biggest, toughest, most important job in the country, the requirements are that you be born in America and that you be thirty-five years of age, and the only people you have to convince are the people who go to the polls.

And oddly enough, that's just the way the people who created the whole thing wanted it to be.

I'm still waiting for either one of them to convince me, mainly because, qualifications aside, none of them is offering what I want.

Well the Constitution of the United States , you know, that quant old document that used to mean something in past administrations, clearly lists the requirements to become President.

Strangely there is no mention of minimum number of years experience in any position other than Citizen of the United States. Clearly the founding fathers thought that people of different experiences in State, Federal, Civil, and Commercial positions would serve as good experience.

Because really, when it comes down to it, no one has any experience for being President until they have served one term. Everyone is new to the job when they are first elected.

Being President is a lot like a soldier in combat, you never can tell how someone will act until they are President/in combat. The person with tons of "experience" may not be a good President, and someone with little experience may turn out to be a good President.

Look at Bush Sr. There was probably no one better qualified for the office of President. He had the military, diplomatic, intelligence experience that no other candidate has come close to matching. But the citizens did not re-elect him for a second term. Clinton was an inexperienced guy but the citizens elected him for two terms. Ya never can tell. :nope:

I am not so concerned with any "experience" as the job of President is OJT from the get go. I am more interested in judgement and their ability to work with other people to get things done. The job of the President, as the chief executive, is to get things done.

I think the dynamic is different now than it has been in any other election. Typically, people have always voted for the top of the ticket....not this time.

This time, the Democrats know that they need Biden's experience to complement Obama's eloquence and appeal. The Republicans know that Sarah Palin has totally energized the Republican base, and significantly reduced worries regarding John McCain's age and health.

This time it's the package that counts. The duo that most Americans believe will really make changes in Washington, will win the day.

A month ago, this was a done deal for the Democrats. Now, all bets are off and the 'Palin effect'' is in place. It's going to be a close one!:D

I think that Independants and 1st time voters will decide this election. Talk to a hundred of them from different areas and you can pick the winner of this election fairly easily (except for those who have yet to decide). Pollsters are asking the same group of people the same old questions this year (I've gotten a couple calls).
That ensures that the election appears close and they have job security as interest is so high this year.

What they don't realize is that the same old way of polling probably doesn't work so well this time. It leaves too many newcomers to the scene out of the picture and unrepresented by the numbers. There's an under-current running through the US that will have change regardless of who is in office. We're not so far from tipping-point of that happening now. What happens when Americans get too PO'd? It's in the history books. So whoever wins the election better deliver. (Pessimistic view but maybe not so far fetched. I'll leave the blanks unfilled in this one).

My predictiion: Come November, which ever side wins will win big. I seriously doubt there'll be any need for re-counts.

Normally I try to influence people's choice by information or drinking them under the table (coffee of course). Not this time. Many Independants are just watching and listening right now--saying that they haven't made up their mind. Some haven't, most have but won't tell. At this point, unless something in the debates changes what I've learned through quite a lot of reading and digging, my decision is made.

But I won't say what my decision is. I think many if not most Independants are doing this this year.

Undecided? :hmm: There's power in that word this year.

Every president does training on the job, doesn't they? :hmm:

Yes, but true!:up: Your next contestent on American Idol! Vote now!

To a certain extent yes. Most are groomed for the time they 'take' the position. In my view, Obama has been groomed just to 'win' the position.

Not my numbers Steve. Just a something I found. I have trouble with 2+2. The requirements for the job are lacking for sure, but I believe the originators of the requirements naturally assumed everyone was in their right mind when voting. Currently, most are going with who Oprah thinks should win. There was no Oprah back then. Personally, I would like to vote for Gov Jindal. But he is not on ballot. I think he is one stand up guy and one hell of an organizer.

Yes, the next 58 days are going to be, in short, a blast! I do like going back and forth with you guys on this. Intellectually stimulating as it were.

I gave my answer to these threads. The best way to be a dem or rep is to stop reading those two threads. :D BTW, Obama was at the beach a few weeks ago. Hawaii. Except he was drinking mint julips. :up:

Touche:rock:

The military trains and grooms men into soldiers. These men learn how to lead. Leading or leadership is probably the first and foremost requirement as president. After all, others do say, "Who leads the US?" Well so and so leads the us. I do like your last observation, judgement and working with others. Certainly a must on anyone's resume for president. As far as Bush's attempt at a second term. I really felt his heart was not into another 4 years. Just my thoughts from what I remember at that time.