I think they need to call in a Priest and exorcize the place. He might need to use diesel oil instead of Holy Water and a piston in place of a cross... :D

guys, that strait seems pretty small. At only 21 miles wide, what's to keep US helos, P-3s and FFGs from pinging the hell out of the entire gulf?

I too think that using the Iranian subs will be a one way ticket.

First, they won't have a home port to go to. Those will be the first places bombed. Second, there won't be replenishment ships, they'd be at the bottom of the gulf before they got to the kilos. Third, the gulf's not that big, a dozen pinging FFGs or a hundred or two active bouies monitored by aircraft would cover the entire gulf.

I give the Iranian subs a week before we know where each and every one is and sinks it. hell, we probably already have spies who know the status of the boats just as well as the chief engineers do.

Until they get rid of these they arn't going to be pinging nothing...
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1...8703jpg2rk.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2976/sa5lncr4on.gif
;)

And those have to deal with this:

http://www.mis.mit.edu.tw/~mis0238/atoair_F-22_8.jpg

and we've long since reduced anti-sam work to a science, if Afghanistan and Iraq are any indication.

Kind of overkill to just sink a few kilo's don't you think ?
Americans have a tendency to consider themselves invincible and underestimate the adversary. History teaches otherwise.
What happens if an f-22 is shot down (those are damn expensive planes) ?
Look what happened to an F-117 in serbia.
Just don't underestimate air defenses.
The point is that the iranians if they went for the interdiction and eventually attack of us ships, us navy would have to put a lot of resources just to negate the kilo's doing any kind of damage.
In the end its the americans who stand to loose much more in an irian sub vs us navy confrontation than the contrary.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/7443/f117nn16md.jpg
Its amazing what you can do with an old SA-3, a stopwatch, a few cell phones and a radio tower. ;)

I bet if we start flying missions over Iran everyone with a rifle is going to be shooting up at the sky. A few hits from AAA can really compromise you RCS and damage all those sensitive computers we Americans love in our jets. :roll:

The reason I came up with the prayer thing on the Kilo is because Iran is an Islamic Republic...so isn't that a requirement that they pray? No secularism in Iran... It would be interesting to see how they handle it though considering your have to get about 60 people to pray at roughly the same time in a confined space. :hmm:

I think the Iranians have F14 A s don't they? And only about 15 are useable considering they had to canabalise a few for parts (they had an original of approx 80 I believe). The As are obselete, late 70s fighters...they wouldn't stand a chance. The Iraqis had a few squadrons of at least valid Mig 29s and they never managed to down a US plane.

You have to put things into perspective...yes the Yugoslavs downed an FA/117, though ultimately they lost the conflict and were kicked back to wear they came from. I think that's cost effective, if you think about it. An F22 for an F14 isn't cost effective, you may think. But chances are they'll never even get close to shooting down an F22 in air-to-air. If you consider a US F15 has never been shot down in aerial combat and has a kill ratio of about 200:1 and now consider the F22 is head and shoulders above the F15 in terms of technology etc.

Iran can only wage an unconventional war against the US...forget the Iranian airforce playing a part in the conflict.

Be serious.
Lets se for instance tghe iranian air force.
What happens if a fighter pilot is flying during prayer time ? You think he puts the autopilot and starts praying ? :roll:

Going against us warships can scarcely be considered as unconventional warfare.
And the problem here is not that Iran is going to invade the us, but the contrary.
What kind of reponse can the us implement against an agressive iranian navy ?
In this scenario us is at a disadvantage short of invading Iran in the old fashioned way (which means not as was done in Iraq).
In any case its the us thats stands to loose much more than iraq in a conventional confrontation in the persian gulf.

You know if you really want an answer you could always Ask and Iman. :lol:

(Just make sure to sign the question 'Sincerely, United States Navy' :lol: )

(I’m going to need a rimshot on this one…)

Why not he’s already on his Flying Carpet!

:-j

Seriously a fighter pilot is different, they can pray before flying (and probity would before a combat mission). They are not stuck in side their jets for weeks at a time.

An airforce pilot doesn't live on the plane, a sub crew does. You think they will never pray for the entire time they are deployed on the sub?



You really think any branch of the Iranian military has a chance against the US? I'm sorry, then you don't know anything about warfare. I discussed the possible invasion of Iran to death on a military forum some time ago. You fail to understand that the US is like the guy with an ace up his sleave at the poker table. The US military cheats, does not play fair...and why should it. It's war. They have the cards all stacked in their favour. But enough of the cliches...here's why:

The US is the only nation left in the world where it truly has the capability to combines it's forces. What will an Iranian surface vessel do against incoming hostile aircraft? Now, you see, a capable airforce running CAP would be useful here...but, guess again. Iran doesn't have an airforce. So, when the US airforce runs wild-weasels against SAM sights, who is going to stop them? There's your same problem again...

Countries like Iran are like someone playing chess with one of piece at a time against the US who is using all 16 pieces. :up:

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Sure but that doesn't mean that the sub will surface.



Nobody is talking about an all out confrontation between iranian navy and the us navy.
We were talking about the effectiveness of kilo submarines vis a vis civilian shipping in the persian gulf and also us military ships.
You sure know what happened to the USS Cole ?
And in that case a sub wasn't even needed.
The point is that surface fleets (any military surface fleet) is at a disadvantage when it is stationary or when it has limited manuevrability options against subs or suicide boats.

You're continuosly underestimating air defense networks. :nope:
In any case we are talking about submarines and submarines couldn't care less of airplanes.

The difference is to use the chess metaphore that the us king is much more valuable than the iranian king.
And this is why us fleet is at a disadvantage.
The iranians have only to score one hit on a us aircarft carrier.
It would sure be a one way mission but you could agree that the loss of an aircraft carrier is much more appealing to the iranians than the sinking of a poor kilo is to the us.

Iran has an airforce, including but not limited to F-14's with Phoenix missiles sold by the US to Iran. You'd better believe they work because the Iranians shot down a crapload of Iraqi airplanes with them. They've got a number of other Russian designs, and you can be sure Iran has a lot more money to spend on military training than most other countries, given its extremely vast quantities of oil.

BTW as far as I know the US does not any longer have wild weasels and now relies solely on UAV's and precision munitions for extremely hazardous duty like SAM hunting.

Some of you guys just don't want to give any credit at all. It'd be a big nasty wakeup call if the US military operated the way you guys are thinking about going about it.

And that prayer boat thing... absolutely rediculous, we're talking about a military here. If they're in danger, they're not going to aggravate the problem by stopping duties to pray. :hmm: Sometimes I wonder about you guys!

I'm sure the German U-Boatmen thought the same at the start of WWII. :roll:

Uhhh we still have the EA-6B Power for Jamming. The new F/A-18G Growler for SEAD (starting in '08) and the standard Hornets for SEAD in the mean time. The EF-111A Spark Varks have only been out of service for a few years and could theoretically be reactivated if necessary, the same goes for the F-4Gs as well. The F-16 Falcon can carry the HARM missile.

If our UK allies back us up we have the Tornado with its kick ass ALARM missile on our side.

Its a vaild question IMHO. Remember "Black Hawk Down"; all the militiamen stopped fighting for their evening prayers.