rgr that :)

Imagine, its war you are in a Seawolf ahead of a ARG group, your task is to make sure the group can pass a chockpoint freely.
Latest info tells you there is a kilo in the area.
You can't find the bastard, but you know he is there lurking in the coastal waters.
The group is closing in, first FFG is passing and the Wasp is close to the point now.
Then out of nowhere the Kilo is attacking launching torpedos, and missiles.
You know where he is now, you start tracking now, because you are to noble to shoot at a baring only.............. :rock:

Ditto. Depth Charges are cheap... Stallions are not (IRL, anyway). They're free in DW... but maybe they shouldn't be :hmm:

TG

Fish. '' Imagine its war..."

The British Board of Film Censors Electronic Media Department. Has awarded this game scenario Trailer an 'X' Certificate.

Mouthwatering stuff Fish - with all this Reality PC I am not sure whether I should say:-
Hey it will be 'fun' to play ! or Hey this sounds good 'real' life stuff !

No I think I'll cut it both ways and say Hey thats gonna be **real**fun !

The Dutch Third Way ?

**Summary** Thanks fun+reality :rock: :up:

and we need another one :o)
I lost 2 subs on ~30 matches, from the day you released your patch, and one against you ;) , the other one against Cyklop (I could have immediatly my revenge here). I sunk all others, this mean all Akula I met.

As there is very few people online these days, and as I changed ISP and didn't played for 2 weeks, I miss MP matches ...

My tactic was NOT to send fish on LOB =>

1) making a TMA on all contacts of the arena (using only 1 tracker for each, spherical for noisy and TA for quiet or distant ones, sometimes both on one close -mean noisy- contacts to have immediate position)
Of course, this tactic is MUCH more easy to do with the Seawolf and the WAA than with the 688i.
really MUCH more easier, say 10 times.

2) launching 2 fish

3) just after this using active (1 to 3 ping) to find the new contact : the ennemy sub.
usually I find him after 1 to 5 minutes of active work, and need 1 to 5 (usually 2 or 3) ping for that.
But sometimes it's more difficult than expected and I need around 10 pings before finding him.

Why launching fishes before using active ? to reduce the reaction time of my opponent. The first thing he will hear will be TIW, then active is no more an indiscretion.

4) guiding weapons to him (and evading with eratic course and speed change) and opening seeker at 1 mile, after a last ping to confirm his position
Of course, as soon as I get him on active, I use a perpendicular course from his position and stop using active until the torps are close to the contact and I need another one to redirect my torps and to open the seeker at the right time : 1 mile, no more, not less.
why no more not less ? =>
- more : the target has too much time to make an evasive manoeuver
- less : my torp could fail to acquire the target properly.


That's because I made TMA on EVERY other contact I could find the ennemy sub in 15 to 20 minutes in ~ 15 to 20 miles around my ship
If I didn't do that, I couldn't find him on the active contacts.
Using active is not that easy, especially from the date you released your MOD.
I think it's even more difficult than to make a TMA on 1 tracker.
but this is very effective when you are trained.

If I see a transient from an Akula, I go 90° left or right, 20 knts for 2 minutes at maximum depth (I'm always deep on a sub match, except to check the other layer sometimes) then slow down to combat speed (14 or 15 knts depending on my sub -I never use the Akula now-).
The fact is : if you are at 2000 ft (seawolf) or 1500ft (688i) you are so far from the surface the stallion or the SSN-27 must fall really near you to acquire you. Especially if you do evasive manoeuver as mentionned above when you see the transient.

I don't flush my opponent as I only use 2 torps each time, and not a wall of torpedoes as I see my opponent often do.

As you need to be at less than 7 miles (in best conditions) to see the other nuke sub, and as I play most sub matches on doggy deep scenario (say 95% of time) with 25 miles diameter area, we could play for hours without detecting each others.
With active, matches are way shorter BUT very interesting :
I gave informations on me but I grab MORE informations with this tactic, giving me near always the advantage from this time : he know my bearing but I know his position.

Of course, if I find the ennemy on the TA BEFORE sending my fishes, I won't release them before I have a good TMA on him.
I will not kill a so presious advantage !
but anyway, as soon as I released fish on the TMA solution, I will use active to confirm distance and to track him until he is dead.
It's soooo easy to find a contact with active when you know the bearing ...

But one thing I'm pretty sure : I can't see how a real commander of a nuke COULDN'T use active when fighting another nuke ...
just because once you are detected (on you TIW) active is no more revelant for the ennemy and give you WAY more accurate informations, and let you track the contact even if you need to evade, then kill your TMA on him (I'm talking about manual TMA and not aTMA cheat ...)

Silent attack are made against surface ship, much more noisy than a submarine.
Here you can do the fight without active, and you also need to be as stealth as possible to avoid aircrafts to detect you.
But on sub match, active is the real key ... after work on passive as mentionned above.

In that case, your job is to use active, regularly, to protect the front of the convoy.
If you did it, the KILO just couldn't have been in position to engage neither you nor the convoy.

Not with manual TMA.
On the opposite, this need more skill to make a good TMA on DW compared to SC.
Even active is WAY more difficult now (with the MOD ...)
But you absolutly right about game with aTMA ...
the aTMA just kill the game.

I know you use manual TMA, so I don't understand how you could say that Molon Labe.
maybe you were talking only about aTMA games ...

I would have said, on the opposite, DW need MORE skill than SC :
you have a very close to reality inertia on DW when you could make a 180° with a nuke at high speed in 5 sec on SC, you need to use very specific TMA pattern (no course/depth/speed change during data record) where you could do whatever you wanted with SC with any counterpart as in DW.
I don't call that 1/2 the skill from SC but TWICE the skill, Molon Labe.

Whatever the way you dig it, there is one thing to do on DW to have deep and interesting games, I say that from the first day of the release, and even on beta test, and I'm pleased to see NOW most veteran agree with this.
This thing is easy to do : switch off the aTMA.
And welcome to a new world.

Oh, come on Fish, you know as well as I do that firing a snapshot down a TIW bearing is competely different from firing on the bearing of first contact.

If the target beats you at the situational awareness game, getting a snapshot off helps level the playing field, forcing the target to cease tracking (for resteering or firing another salvo) in order to evade your weapons.

On the other hand, in the case of first contact, firing prematurely prevents you from gaining superior situational awareness and throws away an advantage that you could have had. (Except in stock DW aTMA matches, since tracking isn't an important part of the game...)

aTMA games are the norm. I welcome a manual TMA match at any time, but they are not easy to get.

I forgot who said this before, but whoever it was was right on the money: new players, or players wanting to spend time at other stations, deserve to have a TMA autocrew that does not cheat so that they can play using the TMA autocrew in dives with the manual TMA players. (We were able to do this in Sub Command without a problem)

Since the aTMA cheats, we can't use manual TMA in dives were aTMA is allowed. That means divers like myself are stuck in aTMA dives in all but a few exceptional cases.

None of my complaints above apply to manual TMA dives with the LW/Ami mod. Those are definitely skill dives. :up:

well , I solved this problem, Molon Labe => I'm always hosting and never allow aTMA LOL
that's true, I didn't do a game with aTMA from a very long time, and won't do it anymore.
I just tell to everyone before launching game that they won't have this, and people who don't like this just quit.
Then we have always nice games.

I just changed ISP
my connection is now 11.5 Mbps download (real, for 20mbps theorical) 950 kbps upload (for 1mbps theorical) and ping are less than 20ms on my gateway usually beetween 100 to 150 ms with USA. (I just checked this board at 134ms) And this is very stable, no lost paquets.
So I can now host a very laaaarge game with lots of people.
With manual TMA of course :roll:

As my connection now can handle more than 20 peoples, people not trained with TMA can share the platform with other one.
This is why MS is made for.

OKO, I am not against manual TMA, I am not against tracking before shooting ( I do that most of the times, only when I get bored I send some bloodhounds out).
But what about new people, you forge them to use manual TMA.
I know from experience some people never get the hang of manual TMA.
So what, shut up fool. :-?
Go to the Seawolves if you want to play. ;)

Ok then

But is it possible for the FFG? really?

I am using this platform all the time because I am a Skimmer.
OKO can say again how you do it. In the next patch it is saying that now we wil be able to do it for the real first time. What do they mean?
It seems very difficult to do that on the plot paper of the FFG.

I will be looking at it

Mau

TG. An excellent idea - a 'real' fiinancial constraint forcing difficult weapon selection choices. :cool:

Agreement on values, implementation and policing would present some difficulties
But it is a feature incorporated in many games. Sometimes in campaigns by supply shortages.

Its a pity the DW scenario designer is unable to limit weapon availability by one means or another.

I'm pretty sure they can... :hmm:

Posted query moons ago - told no. :hmm:

''Pretty sure'' :roll:

Come-on if you think it can be done please point to the source -
help/corrections backed by facts like Page No from the Mission Designer manual etc. etc. :P :yep:

I will be happy to stand corrected and happy that the feature **is** present. :D