Quote:

Originally Posted by soopaman2 (Post 2076179) http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...a_traitor.html Snowden is a spy.

So far, lets check...

1. a person employed by a government to obtain secret information or intelligence about another, usually hostile, country, especially with reference to military or naval affairs.


...nope.





2. a person who keeps close and secret watch on the actions and words of another or others.

...the US gov't as well as Snowden.


3. a person who seeks to obtain confidential information about the activities, plans, methods, etc., of an organization or person, especially one who is employed for this purpose by a competitor: an industrial spy.

...nope.


4. the act of spying.

5. to observe secretively or furtively with hostile intent (often followed by on or upon ).

...none.


6. to act as a spy; engage in espionage.

...both sides



7. to be on the lookout; keep watch.

...both sides.

8. to search for or examine something closely or carefully.

...we all better!:rotfl2:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spy

which spy is worse, the guy that exposes the government as a giant tapping your wires and wirelesses
or the gov't that spies on yall "for your common security"


anyone answering with "i trust my poiticians more than snowden"
should be ripped off freedom and security, for you traded freedom in for security and deserve neither.

right?

I mean like...
simplez, eh :D

t answer my own question:
I rather see Obama and his crooks hung by their balls than Snowden even in an interrogation.

because them be spying and searching data that is passing the worldwide Networks.

Big yellow text makes me wrong!

Good job!

http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/24/sno...to-expose-nsa/

Glad he told the Chinese this, must be looking for a job.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/24/44...contractor-job

Here too.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/25/politi...ak-snowden-job

And here...

Oh such a hero, he took the job to leak it, and you still defend him?

Then he ran to China and Russia with laptops full of info.

I see him in another class from Bradley Manning, this guy is not disgruntled but an intentional spy.


What he exposed is important, how he came about the info, then ran to hostile nations with it, is disgusting.

(edit: nothing worries you about this man gallivanting around russia, china , and soon Cuba and S America with national secrets worries you?

Manning at least had the balls to face those he accused.

A)
was he sent by those countries to
B)
share his info with them?

that would make him a spy.

if yes, he signed his death Warrant.

and yes, i defend him.
an enemy of my enemy is my friend.

by snooping on the networks, the US of A have made the world their enemy. and if not that, has removed the "friends" badge off a bunch of countries.
because you do not spy on your friends. You spy on your enemies.

if snowden is teh enemy of the US of A, he be my buddy for life...:D

because the guilty entity in here is the apparatus that the American population has created. allowed to develop. put in place. let rise to that position.
To me... the americans as such are guilty.

...if i push my POV to the extreme.


and no,he can travel where he wants. he aint carrying my countries secrets around.
the dude doesn't even know my country exists. hah.

So you wish to see America suffer because you hate us, thanks for being honest.

What did I do to you? my name is Chris, I am married with no kids, have 3 cats and a dog, and work 48 hours a week.

What did I do to you?

Personally, our own government worries me infinitely more then anything Snowden might be doing. The amount of scandal and abuse that has been coming out of the capital over the last couple months is staggering and appalling. The NSA having EVERYONE under computer surveillance at all times, is like arsenic laced icing on a rotten maggot infested cake that our elected officials assure is healthy for us and tastes great.

Being somewhat reasonable I have to agree.

I cannot even stake this on Obama, this is institutional and has been going on long before him.

"We the people" lost our standing a long time ago.

How long until we are screaming at images of Goldstein on the telescreen, well not too long, all hail Oceania!

Lets see - an American citizen with the intent of exposing governmental corruption and illegal action. Said citizen was successful. Yep - so far I see nothing wrong with that.

Of course he ran - his life was in serious danger if not totally over if he stayed. You really think he would have gotten a "fair trial" when the government would have done its utmost to make sure no one ever heard about him?

As for "laptops full of info" - what info do they have? You are assuming his guilt when you don't know what that info is. Of course - it may be that you choose to "believe in your government" that every "classified" thing is truly important to our nation - when, as we have seen with this whole issue is that the government does "classify" things simply to hide its illegal actions from its own victims - uhm...citizenry.

Your declaring him a traitor using Guilty until proven Innocent - yet you have no idea what he has on those laptops....

How he came by the info - you mean "snooping" on the government like it does us? So how do we keep government in check without people willing to tell us what our government is doing? You don't expect uncle sam to tell you himself, do you?

[quote](edit: nothing worries you about this man gallivanting around russia, china , and soon Cuba and S America with national secrets worries you? [\quote]

Given that our government has not accused him of providing any "national secrets" to foreign entities - which WOULD make him a spy - not really. See - they just haven't thought to go that far yet. Give it time - the accusation will come. The thing is - some national "secrets" shouldn't be secret - because they shouldn't exist. Others should. You don't know what he has on those laptops - and neither do I.

Manning gave out information that got people targeted and killed. Whether those people deserved that fate or not is irrelevant. Snowden's revelation has not let to any such targeting or death. He revealed that our government was doing something illegal to its own citizens. While the PURPOSE behind both may have been the same - aka holding government actions to account - the Snowden revelation show a clearly illegal act perpetrated at the expense of the rights of the American citizen. Manning's situation - and outcome are significantly different.

There is a huge difference. One got people killed - the other has (to date that we know of) simply held the facts up to the people without causing death.

Kind of like the difference between a guy who steals a candy bar and a guy who steals a candy bar and then causes a few people to choke to death on it. One is guilty of a minor infraction at best - the other is guilty of murder.

The authorities were asked to back up that claim made about Manning. They dropped the claim because it was nonsense.

Double post

Who exactly got killed by Bradley Manning ?
Was it one, or several ? Names and situations please - and evidence.

Who was murdered by the orders made public by him ?

Wasn't it him who made the video of the atrocious Apache 'attack' on unarmed civilians, two Reuters correspondents and the driver public. Remember the laughter and the words of the pilot ?
Along with the orders how to treat muslims and with which pretext to arrest them, to raise POW numbers and fill up Guantanmo, for scapegoats?
What about drone attacks killing innocent bystanders (more than hundreds meanwhile) and supected (!) criminals, without a fair trial ?

'Patrotism'. We are talking of collateral murder and international war crime evidence here. We would not know anything about this, without him.
Isn't it more patriotic to stand up and talk about obvious atrocities being committed during clandestine operations while telling lies to the american public ?

Manning got his behind in a much more dangerous situation than Snowden, he risked more, and being in the military he was well aware of what to come. But he still staid and let himself imprisoned, to make a case.
Say what you want, to stay shows some courage.


I am beginning to hate all this, the more you hear and read the more atrocious it all gets. But it still is my opinion that this has to be mentioned, talked about, and judged. To keep all those people (remember Binney and Drake) silent by whatever means is a crime on free speech and freedom itself.
To stage trials against those men is done for one reason only, to divert from the real criminals.

It is not the whistleblower who committed the primary crime.

"If they can convince the American people that this case is about mental state of a single troubled kid from Crescent, Oklahoma, then the propaganda war has been won already.
[...]
This whole thing, this trial, it all comes down to one simple equation. If you can be punished for making public a crime, then the government doing the punishing is itself criminal."
(Rolling stone, last week)

4 deaths at least can be linked to the Manning/Wikileaks debacle.

Chris Stevens, Sean Smith, Glen Doherty, Tyrone Woods.

Stevens wrote a classified memo that named Derna as a major source of extremist manpower going into Iraq. Derna is right outside Benghazi. Even Rachel Maddow admitted that Al Qaeda documents show that Derna has been the source of more "holy warriors" than any other place in the entire Arab world.

Every fact we now have on Benghazi shows it was a targeted hit. Manning's leak highlighted Stevens as pointing out a major manpower source for Islamic extremists. Al Qaeda got a target - and the ineptitude of our State Department allowed them to successfully target someone who represented a threat to them - because he exposed Derna. 3 others died because of that as well.

To see the cable - click the following link:
http://wikileaks.org/cable/2008/02/08TRIPOLI120.html

You might should go review that video - and review one that does more than just show the attack. This one actually shows the lead up - and confirms that there were weapons and not just 2 guys with cameras. So unless you have some really whacked definition of "unarmed" your claim is simply incorrect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25EWUUBjPMo

Specifically, look at 0:45 (which shows the two cameramen with camera's) to 0:57 which shows 2 additional men with weapons coming into view. Even with the camera's mis-identified it was - as the soldiers report - an "armed group" - which in case you didn't know was a violation of Iraqi law at the time.

Or better yet - watch the WHOLE video in context - instead of just the main wikileaks edited version...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c1b_1270800204

And yes - there were AK-47's and RPG's found in the aftermath....

Actually that was the CPG talking. But yes - I do. I remember them confirming - per the ROE - that weapons were identified. Laughter... Ever been in combat? Different people deal with it different ways. Judge it how you will, but you do so in ignorance. It was a nervous laughter, a coping mechanism. I don't condone it per se, but to not understand its context and judge it harshly is unfair at best.

I have never seen such orders, but if you have a link I don't mind reviewing it. Educate me if you have the facts to back up the claim.

And when a shooter is in a mosque or other spot, we should lose who knows how many lives trying to apprehend him and give him a fair trial? Combat isn't pretty - but just like in the Apache video, the ROE was followed. No one likes collateral damage - but who is to blame, the person that hides in a crowd and shoots from it, or the people that take out the shooter to stop the combat situation cold? I know where my answer is.

Again you don't understand ROE's apparently. The Iraqi government agreed US forces could operate in their country - but to gain that agreement we had to create specific ROE's. Thus, in the Apache video, weapons had to be identified before a strike could take place. They were, and the operation was conducted within the guidelines for consent by the legally elected government of Iraq. Don't like it? Take it up with them.

There is nothing patriotic about trying to smear people by saying people running around the street with AK-47's and RPG's shooting at our people as "unarmed". There is nothing patriotic about editing video to take it out of context and mislead. See the full video link....

He didn't risk more. At worst, he gets a firing squad - but that will never happen. In reality, he risks a life term in prison. Snowden - risked a .338 A-Square (or similar) round in his head. Even "worst case" they both risked their lives in one way or the other.

Perhaps - but not much smarts. Making sure you can continue the fight shows both. See my earlier George Washington reference.

On that we agree.

well, you are an american who voted his politicians.
these politicians, with your permission, have created this mess.
and if you are too young for that, then it was the generation before you. Your parents. grandparents.

so thanks for that, man...
you say you go about your daily life and do no harm.
but you aint watching your politicians either, are you? are you checking what they do in your name?
You handed your power to some guy you believe in, and that is that. See you in four years.

as i said: it is not my current position to hate an individual. I still think anmericans rock, and hard.
but somehow, somewhere this mess has been voted and created.

Same about the brits sitting on the Data Highways scanning the world's mails.
i mean like WTF brits!!!

a) what have you done?
b) what you gonna do to remove this scanning system to restore net neutrality and our friendship?


The POTUS and the King of Russia are having a verbal go at each other, right.
but this affects the entire planet. Germans are throwing crap at the brits. Chinese officially pissed abut the Yanks. (not that either country is not spying on its own people, eh...)
I bet this surveilance system(s) is poisoning relations between countries all over the world.

thanks for that, country of the Free!

"US warns of Snowden consequences"

"world warns snooping countries of consequences" should be the more appropriate approach.

:/\\!!:stare:

The "National Security Consequences" they speak of are nothing more than propaganda from the government. They are angry because their actions have been exposed, a campaign of disinformation is being waged, they want to catch him, lock him up and throw away the key.I wouldn't be surprised if they have the audacity to kill him or if he just disappears.This man is a hero, he did something few in a position to do so have done or would have done, he is not a spy nor a traitor but patriot, he is on the run because he knows the US government will kill him or capture him and most likely make him wish he were dead.Again, he did something few in his position have done or have the guts to do, expose the group of criminals running the government of the United States.Almost nothing will spur the American people now days, the lack of real reaction to this is why they keep pushing.A massive recall campaign for nearly every congressmen and senator should be launched, after an objective congress is sworn in should impeach him and save us from the nightmare that we are trapped in.This is unacceptable by any standard, was under Bush but has greatly expanded under obama.Orwell should have titled his book 2013.

Thank you.