Except that:

A. Just about any words can be used to denounce and destroy and
B. I'm no Marxist

Why was Hess kept in prison for a longer term than other Nazis? Well, for one thing, he was a symbol of the power of the Nazis (right-hand man to Hitler, party big-wig, etc.) The Allies needed someone as a proof they were hard on the Nazis and their crimes. Hess just happened to fill the bill for their purposes. Add to this the USSR's refusal to go along with setting certain Nazi prisoners free (e.g., Albert Speer, etc.) becuase they felt the need to exact a severe penalty on someone after Hitler died. Also, a lot of the other Nazis became "valuable" to the Allies after the war as the Cold War progressed; InterPol, NATO, various police/scientific/espionage groups and organizations were infested with former Nazis who lent their expertise to both the West and the USSR. Werner von Braun, who designed the dreaded, deadly V-rockets that caused so much destruction to Britain and who used, knowingly, concentration camp slave labor to carry out his projects is a highly considered, if not revered, part of the U.S. civilian and military space history; but the U.S. turned a blind eye when his value exceeded his guilt.

Why is their no "comments" section on the media sites reporting the Hess disinterment? You have only to look at this topic to know the answer. Thus far, the rhetoric has been fairly civilized on this topic; however, the postings here are by people who, for the greater part, know and respect the observed courtesies of this forum. Public media forums are apt to attract all manner of extreme postings of all stripes and of not too respectful or courteous demeanor. The comments were most likely blocked to avoid the manure storm of extreme postings and the need to defend themselves against charges of allowing such postings. It is a simple reason for a simple solution. No conspiracies or malevolence involved; just common sense...

It was also rife in this country, as well. Such public luminaries as Charles Lindberg openly and vocally espoused the Nazi cause in this country and were active in the various American Bund organizations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American_Bund

(The above article does not metion Lindberg, but, from a PBS site:

http://www.pbs.org/perilousfight/social/antisemitism/

"The other famous American was Charles Lindbergh, who may have been an anti-Semite, but most certainly claimed publicly that Jews were trying, partly through their ownership of the media, to draw America into the war. Lindbergh represented America First, the powerful isolationist organization that, in fact, ejected Henry Ford for his anti-Semitic views.The other famous American was Charles Lindbergh, who may have been an anti-Semite, but most certainly claimed publicly that Jews were trying, partly through their ownership of the media, to draw America into the war. Lindbergh represented America First, the powerful isolationist organization that, in fact, ejected Henry Ford for his anti-Semitic views."

And about Henry Ford [from the same PBS site]:

"By 1939, the anti-Semites had two causes: keeping America out of the European war, and keeping European Jews out of America. And they had two famous men in their ranks. Henry Ford was a true rags-to-riches hero. He was also an anti-Semite, who railed incessantly against "the Jewish plan to control the world" in his newspaper, the Dearborn Independent (circulation allegedly 700,000), which Ford dealerships distributed free of charge. A collection of Ford's ghostwritten columns was published as The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem — a best-seller in Germany."

Ford also kept a framed picture of Hitler on his office desk at the Ford Motor Co.; the photo somehow disappeared after the start of WWII...

And let's not forget Irving Berlin and his song "God Bless America". There was once a movement to use the song in place of "The Star Spangled Banner" as the U.S. national anthem. The effort was cut down over objections that a song written by a Jew would be a sort of desecration in a God-fearing country such as the U.S. It is more than a little ironic to note the singing of the song by members of Congress immediately following 9/11 on the steps of the Capitol and the now common practice of sing the song at nearly every sporting or political event; somewhere, Irving Berlin looks down with a wry smile...

Thus ends my rant, and, to answer any questions, no, I am not Jewish, I was raised a catholic (now lapsed): I just like common sense...

Boy August, I have never had a simple conversation so mis-understood.


Have a nice day:salute:

Funny that's exactly what I was thinking about you.

and you as well sir.

Thank you, vienna, for an answer that was both well-thought out and composed; I hadn't meant to imply that anti-Semitism wasn't happening in America (as you clarified, it was) but meant to focus on that aspect of European - specifically, German and Soviet - anti-Semitism that directly facilitated the rise of National Socialism in Germany, and the confrontation with Leninism-Marxism in the Soviet Union.

Given the technical prowess of men like Von Braun, it does seem to make sense that Hess would be selected to bear the brunt of the punishment in the West - the proverbial fall guy. Which then makes me wonder: was he kept in Spandau because he was a Nazi, or was he kept in Spandau to keep HIM safe from the Soviets?

Millions were sent to the camps. Almost all did not return. What happened to them? Were they abducted by aliens?

What's the most likely explanation?

What motivates you to ignore it?

We have a winner! :yeah:

Hi Growler,
I believe Hess defected before operation Barbarossa, so the Soviets had no
reason other than a political one.

Zee

Wow.
There I am, jusone night out, drinking with the lads, and I come back to a thread full of comedy. Man,I love the complaining in first posts how one is not allowed to talk about holocaust denial - on a board where the owner allows this discussion, and where the server is histed under the law of Texas, USA - or are ZOG the three letters you funny guys like to refer to the States. Guess the jewish-controlled United States do allow some discussion :o?

As I am not sober now, I refrain from a discussion with the nutters, who present no new claim to their cases since decades: yawn!

So I prefer to respond to a guy who looks like a legitimate member, as he is a relative to the one,only and real Mr. Rivit -bro-in-law, I think?

The reason why not many people off themselves at 93 is that not many people reach that age and not many are in the physical condition to choose. If you talk to people who work in retirement homes, you'll see that suicide at old age is as comman as in any age group.
A psychological motive might be to show that you are still in control of your own decisions - and do not rely on the health care of your enemy - as which Hess still saw the people who kept him in prison.

other people I would only like to quote:

too lazy to make a meme:

Offtopic, but still: I recommend doing that, if you can find time. It's a fascinating book. People love to talk about Hitler, but not many people for some reason take the opportunity to study his thoughts and backgrounds, even when they are readily available in a convenient book form. It's a great source and can be easily found online too (that's how I found the English quotes for my post).

Oh, and thanks for the compliment :oops:.

If I said what I thought to a couple of members - one of whom let me down espeically reading other posts - I'd get put in the brig so I better calm down before I post something stupid. :shifty::dead:

Quite a jail term, for a diplomat on a peace mission.

Oh noes! Please, please, please don't go! We'll bake a cake, if you stay! :yep:

The enduring myth of Rudolf Hess
 

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/5...0124969391.jpg

On Wednesday 20 July 2011 - the anniversary of the attempt on Hitler's life in 1944 - the public was informed that the grave of Rudolf Hess, the "Fuehrer's deputy", had been razed before daybreak.

Beyond the fascinating coincidence in the date - there will surely be further speculation on this - the decision by Hess's heirs was surprising.

They wanted to commit his mortal remains to the waves and organise a funeral at sea for a man whose mystique and influence on the far-right was strongly linked to the existence of his grave in the Bavarian village of Wunsiedel.

He was already one the most interesting figures in post-war Germany, being the only high-ranking Nazi serving a life sentence imposed by the Nuremberg war-crimes court - Albert Speer, for instance, was released in 1966.

'Anti-German plot'

Hess owes his ambiguous fame to the circumstances of his death. He was found hanged in a summer house in Berlin's Spandau Prison, where he had spent the previous 20 years.

The official version - contested by right-wingers of all stripes - was that he committed suicide to end his long imprisonment.

For the German and international far-right movement, this was clear evidence that the powers that be had tried to suppress the truth about an "anti-German" plot dating back to the war years.

According to this version of events, the Allied forces - notably the British secret service - ignored the true purpose of Hess's flight to Britain in 1941. He was taking a peace plan to Churchill, he told his interrogators.

This idea made Hess the perfect figure to portray the Nazis as victims, rather than aggressors.

Britain had started World War II to destroy Germany, and Hess was captured in Scotland to crush the peaceful intentions of Nazi Germany.

Even the fact that Hitler declared him insane did not dent this legend.

Revitalised myth

Moreover the resurgent Nazi scene in recent years has gradually recognised the potential of this myth to attract young people susceptible to tales of injustice.

What started as a tiny demonstration of a handful of Nazi activists in the 1990s had turned into thousands regularly filling the streets of Wunsiedel by early 2000s.

Everybody who looked at such scenes - including myself and my academic colleagues - felt uncomfortable. Most of the demonstrators were young and dressed like average heavy-metal kids - until you looked at their T-shirts and tattoos.

The Hess myth, modernised to satisfy a desire for victimhood, made the Wundsiedel commemorations alluring to young people. But it also led the Constitutional Court to ban the event in 2005, as the potential for the recruitment of new blood into the Neo-Nazi movement got increasingly obvious.

However the court order had limited effect on such gatherings, which continued less frequently and at a smaller scale elsewhere. But then Hess had become a kind of right-wing Che Guevara, with his portrait on shirts, buttons and posters.

In the end the family agreed to terminate the lease on the grave.

Thus an event that many would have thought highly improbably until now became reality on Wednesday evening. What might be the consequences of this startling decision?

Nazi zombie

Firstly, it is no coincidence that the relatives and officials chose to eliminate every physical trace of a figure with a vast potential for creating right-wing legends.

As was the case for Osama Bin Laden some weeks ago, the authorities understand the power of a permanent shrine to a highly controversial figure.

It becomes a place of pilgrimage, a focus for irrational and uncontrollable worship.

Secondly, the far-right movement has lost a crucial place embodying myths and legends that give it a friendly face. The neo-Nazis desperately need to celebrate the memory of an attractive "hero" for the benefit of new recruits.

And thirdly, there will be an increased potential for violence of all kinds - from street unrest to digital stalking - by the far-right.

Deprived of a leading rallying figure, the movement will feel that its noble tradition has been humiliated by unjust powers yet again.

Ultimately it is possible that a renewed cult could rise again around Hess, the ultimate Nazi zombie.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14244165

Note: Update Record,22 July 2011 Last updated at 00:24 GMT