You're gunna have a blast in provo then.:haha::03::salute:

Yubba's idea of the perfect America, is a christian version of Iran. Only instead of the Islamic Republic of Iran, it would be called the Christian Republic of America, and we'd all wear the yoke of religious oppression in his theocratic dream world :har:

Or Orem, or American fork, where ever. The thing is, i know what im getting into before I move. It's their area, they were they're first, and i chose to move there anyway. So I really don't have any excuse to complain when i can't buy beer on a sunday. Mormon's aren't remotely as bad as mainstream Evangelical Christians. The beleifs are weird, but they show respect towards others and aren't all that hipocritical (edit: Although they are judgemental). I can live with that.

man you guys are funny
 

Ok say, the Left wins, you can already see the oppression going on right now, gas over 4 dollars, food prices sky rocketting, 44 million people on food stamps , millions out of work, brought to you by the liberal left and they want to spend more money, that we don't have, and grow more government, and all they can think of, is tax the rich, and when the rich are gone, they will turn on each other, now that's funny. :woot:and where do guys think up this stuff, and what is wrong beleiving in the Consitution and a little bit of god, won't hurt some of you guys to beleive in something . If you don't stand for something you fall for everything like we can spend our way out of this or we have to pass this to see what's in this bill, now that's the funniest thing I've ever heard

What a short memory you have.

I don't converse with fence posts. So here's a picture instead.
http://media.lunch.com/d/d7/488777.jpg

Haha, that's true. You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Amazes me how you can call those in Wisconsin "Godless Union thugs".
How do you know? This is the problem with the fundy right, they assume everyoneis Godless except those that accept their views. Not to mention Christ said not to judge others as only he can see the heart.

I'm not for public unions either, but I would never judge people I don't know....Why the fundy right scares me, they think they can define God for everyone.

Well the union thugs certainly weren't good christians and I never claimed to be a good christian, but I know good from bad, Left {bad} right {good}:O: Must be hell grasping for staws on the free fall of defeat. Like Sarah said we won the fight in Wisconsin we will win else where.:salute: God bless America, God bless Sarah and the Tea Party. To better my self as a christian I'll even pray for you guys.:sunny: Oh Lord, protect these souls here at Subsim . Amen

And the good reasons are... ?

Interesting thread. Somehow, I get the impression that there is tension over a lot more than just Palins leadership ability or power here.

However, the point of this post is not to invite contention, but consensus through consideration. Apparently, the issue here has morphed into one of religious freedom and what kind of morality, if any, that the government, and/or society, should be allowed to impose or imply.

I count myself amongst those who can sympathize with Palin's "conservative values" stance, but I have to question my fellow social conservatives. If our stance is the right one, then what need do we have to impose it? We see our views and lifestyle as being threatened, by the left, often with good reason, but does anyone remember how we got to the point where they needed to attack our views in the first place? Does anyone remember what their preferred agency for effecting that attack has been?

In case any of us do, I would suggest that it may be unwise to try to use the same agency to impose our values upon anyone else, and to speak against any conservative candidates who would. Obviously, it hasn't worked well for us thus far, assuming that the laments of the loss of American morality have any substance or relevance.

Don't we have the moral fabric and the right ideas to stand upon our own merit? If not for government intervention in our social structure, would we not be winning anyway? We do not need the government to do for us what is right or prove what we do is right, and we've never been happy when it was used against us. As conservatives, we need nothing more than fundamental constitutional rights to succeed, no? So why aren't we fighting for that position?

You can try to blame it on the liberals for their interference, but all you really have to blame is yourselves for decades of trying to use government force to fight your opposites.

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Now, for you social liberal-types who want to bash social conservatives for their "harmful" values, I have a lesson from Jesus himself - Pull the plank out of your own eye first. What do you think you are doing when you advocate economic measures on the basis of your enlightenment and social consciousness? Have your efforts fixed anything? They obviously haven't, so you're in no position to judge conservatives with personal religious moral stances that they mostly preach to others, seeing as how you make a moral stance of redistributing wealth to suit your moral stance by force.

If some conservative came in here, or into the halls of congress, claiming that 35% of all mandated education should be religious, you guys would rip him to shreds. Heck, I'd join you. It's a violation of personal freedom, the highest ideal to which classical liberalism aspired. But then you don't bat an eye when taking 35% of a middle-class family's wealth. Not because it was what you wanted, but because you let your government effect your choices for you. And now you blame the conservatives for their role in giving power to an agency that you sought to use against them but which they ended up using against you.

It first started about her chest, and somehow I got Reborn Al a loo ya amen brother the power of the Lord will heal you.:haha: Almost forgot when greed fills mans heart, there's no room for the Lord that's what makes him godless for he only worships money and property- {Yubba 1881}

Religion and politics should never, EVER be mixed.

The instant... the VERY INSTANT someone shows a hint of speaking from the political podium with a bible in their back pocket...... i stop listening. I stop listening because in positions of leadership, I look for and expect: practicality, logic and reason. Moral's alone will not make a successful leader. A platform that espouses morals first, or "vote for morals" is a platform that works on "I believe", or "I think", and not for how things truly are.

It begs the question what do they "know"? Are they willing to find it out? Can they see past their own beleifs? Can they make compromises? Can they negotiate? Do the have the ability to see the world for what it is, instead of what they think things should be?

The point here is, despite what were lead to believe when we are raised as kids - the world does not work in black and white, good or bad, right or wrong, left or right. The world works in shades of gray. For people who've lived their whole life in backwoods USA, having never gone overseas and experienced things first hand, its probably a hard concept to grasp. In my opinion any aspiring leader who talks politics with their religious and moral blinders on their head, is a recipe for failure because they will most likely be unable or unwilling to see the various situations they will encounter for what they really are - not what they think they are.

Wisdom in this one is :yep:

It does stynk that in the United States politicians have to at least pretend to be religious to have any chance of being elected. :nope:

Perpetuating the myth.

One bible, 100's of denominations and thousands of different doctrines, but each think only they have it right...should be enough for any logical person.

If you really want to see people fight and belittle each other, join one of the christian forums.

:hmmm: you startin too figure it out.