SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - Are there any real deal breakers in SH5 ?

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- - Are there any real deal breakers in SH5 ? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166311)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav (Post 1338048)

Wolfpacks are underdevelopped too... they are missing!

So that's why I said

Quote:

Originally Posted by Méo (Post 1338029)

For me I would say wolfpacks (I know there are some files about it in the game, but for the moment, they are missing).

In the end, it all comes down to your interpretation.

Quote:

dude, you are asking an impossible-to-answer question.:damn:
and that kind of ticks me off, because its a really interesting one to wich i would like to see a few good answers.

No, it's not impossible. Poster above (Eaf274 ..) and others have been building up the answer.

Quote:

What about you show me your line of thinking by answering your own question? I just do not seem to get it.

LOL. It would be a pleasure . :DL but it will have to wait a short while. My wife is calling me to dinner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav (Post 1338023)

so let me play the game...

AI of all kind do not use torpedoes

Planes, DDs, Torpedo Boats, Schnellboats, Submarines...
no progress in 5 years since shIII

Wolfpacks

clearly a interaction with BDU/CFlottilla command/inter-uboot operations and communication is needed and was desired.
Nobody seems to have listened

Substandard

The Supermods of 2008 and 2009 have set the standard to a modern Uboat game.
Units, functions, Weaponry,
variations in ship liveries, ship types,
Radio messages,
User interfaces,
Sounds
AI routines
documentation

are still well below what supermods of SHIII era offer.

I expect a new product to at least "take a look" at what the community implemented over the last...3?4?5? years, and "read" their wishlists.
I expect that a devteam, because the persons are the same ones, to be smart and open their eyes.

Until shortly before release i believed the creators of the game to build on things like GWX or LSH. It was only few months before Day X that we were offered info about the re-definition of the series, primarily based on systems, to aim for a more personal approach.

Such is clearly not the case. No SHIII 2.0? No Money from me. Broken Deal.

...just 3 things off the top of my head, and not in the "ubi bashing, half game, modders needed category".

My opinion valid now?:D

Very valid and well written.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav (Post 1338023)

All correct points (also the others I removed from your quote)!

I don't recall how many people wrote (barked at me...) that mods are no competition to a commercial products, but this is another clear evidence that they are. They enhance the features, quality and longevity of another game, an older release, which than competes with newer releases. If you want to play, you will naturally spent your scarce time with the best game on the genre there is.

In case of SHV this leads to internal competition with SHIII and SHIV enhanced by GWX, LSH, (almost wrote LSD;-) ) OM etc. mods, i.e. basically competition with modders. And if Ubisoft wants to release and sell new franchise more regularly in the future, this longevity (and hence the modding capabilities) may sooner or later become a target of the strategic marketing people...

I think it is pretty obvious that excellent modding is a direct competition. Or do I miss anything crucial?

Quote:

Originally Posted by janh (Post 1338110)

I don't know. I'd argue that modability is what has sold this game. I would never have bought it had I not been aware of Subsims excellent modders, and more importantly their abilities.

I would imagine most casual gamers are steering clear , because of the DRM stink, the awful reviews on Amazon (normally I listen to any reviews before buying) the reported bugs.

Modability may be the only thing keeping SHV afloat, had I not had access to mods like the moral mod, the compass mod, church's keyboard commands then this game would be unplayable.

no real deal breakers for me, but what do I know, I just play the game.

Anyway, I just wanted to show you all my latest project:

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3929/pq17002.jpg

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9147/pq17003.jpg

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9694/pq17004.jpg

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/329/pq17001.jpg

now back to my broken unplayable game...:arrgh!:

Yes, SH5 is very purdy. :roll:

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanC (Post 1338152)

Yes, SH5 is very purdy. :roll:

lol :haha:

Quote:

Originally Posted by janh (Post 1338110)

I think it is pretty obvious that excellent modding is a direct competition. Or do I miss anything crucial?

I've read the same thoughts on Total War forums wrt the poor state of their latest releases (though to be fair, Empire and Napoleon Total War are much more polished products than SH5 is).

Mods do a lot to lengthen the life of games, contributing to a game's status as "classic". It's those titles that a company builds its reputation on (Hence the words "From the makers of..." to market another product). Think of the Microsoft Flight Simulator series, which has a huge modding community, but this never stopped people from buying the next version. Anyone in the games industry with half a brain should see that a thriving modding community is working in their favour. Many publishers acknowledged this by including modding tools or SDK's with their games (MS Flight Sim, The Elder Scrolls, Operation Flashpoint,...) or simply by being helpful by answering questions of modders (ThirdWire flight sims).

IF, on the other hand, your only goal is short-term profit by increasing the number of produced titles regardless of quality, then... well... :down:

Quote:

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav (Post 1338023)

AI of all kind do not use torpedoes

Planes, DDs, Torpedo Boats, Schnellboats, Submarines...
no progress in 5 years since shIII

I don't understand? Planes have been shooting torpedoes from SH4, while in SH5 there's also AI submarines shooting torpedoes. No progress?

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanaiba (Post 1338246)

I don't understand? Planes have been shooting torpedoes from SH4, while in SH5 there's also AI submarines shooting torpedoes. No progress?

As I understand it at the moment the AI subs fire their torpedoes and the torpedoes sink. There's a screenshot somewhere of it. All in all the "out of the box" AI is pretty poor.

Oh I want to add that there is no character model of yourself aka the captain/kaleun. A little weird imo when using the external camera.

sorry for being slightly off-topic!

as for the SH5 GUI - it sure looks neat and clean and "modern".
but have a look here:
(hope, Makman doesn't mind posting this pic of v3 of his SH3-GUI here)

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5793/227g.jpg

might be, I'm already too old-fashioned for the "new stuff", but if I ever get the possibility to play SH5 I'd strip it down to the core and adjust 2D-maps like these.
can you imagine what it looks like (i.e. the antagonism) when dragging out the KM-Angriffscheibe in the SH5-map??

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanaiba (Post 1338246)

I don't understand? Planes have been shooting torpedoes from SH4, while in SH5 there's also AI submarines shooting torpedoes. No progress?

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbo180265 (Post 1338251)

As I understand it at the moment the AI subs fire their torpedoes and the torpedoes sink.

Insert facepalm picture here.

Sorry for this massive post. HundertzehnGustav asked me what my answer would be to my own question. This depended on your responses which I must thank you all for.

I've split it into five steps. If you'd rather chew your leg off than follow the whole thing through try jumping to STEP FIVE. :DL

If you're going to pick holes in it or otherwise throw insults at me I won't be too impressed if you haven't read it all. :nope:

As far as possible the wording in the text of the issues in the list is that of the posters.

FIRST STEP - This is a Full list of "issues" as posted by authors on the thread up to 8.00 pm on Sunday March 28.

Apologies if I've missed any. I've added a few of my own .
I'm not a veteran of SH3/SH4 so go easy on any naivity.

Full List

'online' requirement.
The Type VII only deal is very bad.
The crew management (not managing transfers and whatnot) real captains had to deal with losing key personnel and having green recruits after every patrol.
there seems to be only 3 types of merchant to sink
I can only play till '43
I'd also like to be able to select the start date (like SHIII) instead of having to start in '39.
crap systems and crew management
AI is the biggest non-moddable issue with the game. the escort AI needs to be improved, and other ship AI as well, so we do not have to see AI ships doing crazy things like ramming docks and running off into the woods.
Inability of crew to spot anything neutral as in SH4
REAL killer that one
May as well not have any neutral shipping out there. The whole point of having 'no map contact updates' switched off is that you could well sink a friendly unless you properly identified who you were firing at.
Inability to see ANY campaign changes unless start a new career
lack of a true auto TDC
sink so many battleship objectives.
ability to manually set torpedo depth accurately so's one can use the magnetic trigger effectively and bust the target's back
vague attempt to inject personal interaction and an RPG element into a genre that doesent lend itself to an RPG.
For me an immersion killer is how the engines sound. Increase speed: volume goes up for the propellers, motors, diesels, and waves....not the frequency.
Morale system is broken
Damage Effects and Control are badly implemented.
Weather, AI damage, map markings not saved in Save games
No torpedo AI of any kind.
No Wolfpacks
No BDU / interaction.
Intrusive "synchronising" messages even when I have this option turned off
No Kriegsmarine grid
Lack of crew animation
No blind spot in hydrophones
Abrupt patrol endings when macro-mission objectives are fulfilled