Completly agreed, unions are part of the problem from all the informations I have. I have no idea if american workers are lazy or not.
I just have a problem with those gents putting all the blame onto these whilst the managers come out with a smile...as usual.

Over here that's certainly not the case considering the overall cooperation of german unions with the state in reforms for the last 10 years to get Germany to become more attractive for investors and realize a lower payscales in general. So far it worked out better then most expected.

That is just it jpm1. My family has owned GM products for over 50+ years. In the 1980's when environmental controls were first implemented on vehicles, quality took a very bad spiral down. Extremely undependable. The foreign makers got a good handle on engineering cars that met the emission requirments and they were dependable. I had replaced countless Holly, Motorcraft, Rochester caborators in the 80's. The rudimentary ROM computers under the dash were garbage. AC/Delco electronics just suck. Throw in some ugly cars and you have a brew for disaster and a family of GM buyers looking elsewhere. We are just one family of millions. Getting back a faithful customer base is very hard. As luck would have it, we have returned back to Ford and Chrysler. They have won me back. GM is on its own as far as I'm concerned.

it seems that you americans talk of your car industry like something that blazes you but you don't realize how lucky you are just sharpen your blades , verify your fire weapons and prepare yourselves to defend one of the America greatest symbol ... http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...s/thumbsup.gif i'm european but i'll be behind you whatever happens

AVGWarhawk your Continental's a top notch car . I love US cars http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...le_triste2.gif http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...s/sourire3.gif

I will defend the industry but some serious changes need to take place. No one is accountable. Start looking at the successful and imitate that model. Ford and Chrysler are on the right track as far as I'm concerned and I have become a loyal customer. In fact, the Mountineer I mentioned a few posts back I just purchased two months ago. I did not bother looking at foreign or GM products. My wife is very happy gettig the groceries in it:D

hey Americans you need to save your car industry or i won't love the US anymore .. dude what a depressing thread http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ns/larmes1.gif http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...s/sourire2.gif

a car whatever is name's Bentley or BMW or Porsche'll never be an american car :rock:

the american car 's the fun in essence

The larger BMW sedans I would take in a heart beat. I like the looks of the BMW and the Audi also. The Mini is very cool! Some of the two door Mercedes are beautiful cars also. Still, in support of American manufacturing, I purchase Ford. I like to keep my faith in American autos. :D

Of course you can, make sure the car is 5 meters long, 2 meters wide and drinks 10 liters/km. There you have it. A 100% genuine made in usa car. :p

that won't make me stop like the US cars

What are they ?

Now this is more level headed thinking. :yep:

Labor costs have always been the problem in their case.

Why have'nt we heard from the UAW union heads ?

Their just sitting back rubbing their greedy hands together waiting for the bailout.

Efficiency for starters. While US workers are paid (what, ~30% more hourly in wage and benefits?) than their Japanese counterparts, Japanese automobiles also take substantially less man hours to produce. And it is not because they are all tiny things. The Japanese started it doing more efficiently a while ago with a product that had US consumers doing some VERY enthusiastic wallet voting in not much time.

And then there's the management. You can scream labor all you want, but it is the management's job to negotiate labor contracts. It is the management's job to ensure their business is run as efficiently as possible. It is the management's job to decide what products the consumer is going to be buying. It is the management's job to react to intense foreign competition. And they have not exactly done an excellent job in any of these areas. You are right though, the Union's do seem to be run by competent people.

You could write a book with what's wrong with the US auto industry. And in fact...someone has and it happens to be available online for free through a university. It's 26 years old, and what is really that different?:
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=291&page=1

Saying it's all labors' fault is turning a blind eye to many problems (I know that's not what Neal was saying). Yes, labor did contribute. But so did MANY other things.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...7356-1,00.html
The American auto industry is still failing. As I said before, I tend to believe that the market can sort things out on its own just fine. And in this case, that looks like it means letting a few auto manufacturers bite the bullet. If this isn't politically acceptable, then we can't take a middle ground with another federal aid program. We need to 100% socialize OR let them burn. Anything else, and we'll just be talking about saving them again in the near future.

PD

LABOR COSTS. It's exactly what Neal was saying.


Neal Stevens : I don't think the problem is with the cars they sell, not at all. The big 3 do sell cheap, high mpg cars, as well as family cars, trucks, and performance cars. The major factor in their demise, as I see it, is their labor costs. The unions have grown out of control in Detroit