SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - US Politics Thread 2021-24

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Ah right well the fallout has already begun.

Quote:

'Crowned Trump king': Experts warn SCOTUS immunity decision 'death knell for democracy'

Two hundred and three days after Special Counsel Jack Smith’s first request, the U.S. Supreme Court in a 6-3 decision along partisan lines on Monday ruled an American President has “absolute” immunity from criminal prosecution if his actions are “official acts” of Office.

Legal experts see Monday’s decision as “very pro-Trump,” a “big win” for the ex-president who is running for re-election despite having already been criminally convicted of 34 felonies in the State of New York, and facing another 54 criminal charges in state and federal courts.

During oral arguments in April, Trump’s attorney argued a president could order SEAL Team Six to assassinate his political rival and not be prosecuted if it could be considered an “official act.”

Dissenting from the majority opinion, Justice Sonia Sotomayor assailed the right-wing justices, writing:

“Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune.”

“Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done,” she continued. “The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law.”

On MSNBC, former Acting U.S. Solicitor General Neal Katyal remarked that presidents now can “just slap the label ‘official acts’ on” anything to be immune from prosecution. Also on MSNBC, former FBI General Counsel and longtime DOJ official Andrew Weissmann called the opinion, “made up, whole cloth.”

Experts also say this ruling effectively turns presidents into kings.

“Justice Sotomayor’s dissent is one of the most terrified and terrifying pieces of judicial writing I’ve ever encountered,” warns Slate senior writer Mark Joseph Stern. He adds: “I just want to take a step back and say that I think the Supreme Court just fundamentally altered the structure and nature of democracy in America. It awards the president the measure of power and immunity that is much, much closer to a king or emperor than an elected official.”

Foreign policy, national security, and political affairs analyst David Rothkopf points to Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson’s dissent, and writes, “the right wing on the court has killed the concept that no person is above the law. The founders must be turning in their graves. After 250 years, we once again are subordinate to a king.”

“The Supreme Court just granted Joe Biden the power of a King, counting on the fact that he won’t use it against, among other things, them,” adds Mother Jones editor-in-chief Clara Jeffery. “Good luck after that.”

Harvard Law’s Alejandra Caraballo called Monday’s ruling “a death knell for democracy.”

The Nation’s justice correspondent Elie Mystal, pointing to Justice Jackson’s dissent warned, “the Court just crowned Trump King.”

“July 4, 1776 – we declare independence from a king,” writes national security attorney Brad Moss. “July 1, 2024 – the Supreme Court decides the president can basically be a king.”

Stern also writes, “The Supreme Court’s conservative supermajority establishes new principles—located nowhere in the text of the Constitution—that permanently shield the president from meaningful accountability when he weaponizes the tools of his office for criminal purposes. That is shocking.”

Constitutional law scholar and Professor of Law Eric Segall observed: “So Nixon would likely have been immune under the standard the Court makes up today.”

Constitutional attorney Andrew L. Seidel called the opinion “one of the most outrageous things ever.”

“This SCOTUS is drunk on power. It’s a founding principle of this nation that nobody is above the law. They betrayed it.”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...03227ac2&ei=13

I may not be an American, but I doubt that an American President can give order to some seal team to take out an another American on US soil.

It must be some law who prevent this.

Markus

The court in principle confirms what plain reason expected: that a president has immunity for his official deeds and decisions as a president while the court also said he has no absolute immunity: immunity for unofficial deeds and decisions, and it explicitly said that not everything a running president does, is official.

There is no meaningful fallout over the decision. The SCOTUS simply confirmed the privilege every one of our presidents has had since this country’s inception and will continue to have.

From the very start all it ever amounted to was election year political hay. Considering how botched up our domestic and foreign policy has become. The only platform Democrats have to run on is ‘get Trump’.

I read the decision. It is not that long. The majority decision that a President has immunity for his “official” acts is logical, well argued and relies on precedents going back 200 years. I don’t see how they could logically have come to another decision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat (Post 2916564)

You actually ignored the headlines, late night comedy shows and political memes and instead took the time to read the SCOTUS decision? That makes you informed and therefore a danger to the party, be careful out there ;)

Question is: what are official and what are unofficial acts by a sitting president? And what about immunity if president does acts criminal by the law? Are these still "official" or are the unofficial?

Next: if Trumb becomes president again, he could order the DoJ to end investigations against him. Which has a very foul smell. He could also pardon himself, which smells even more rotten.

What bothers me more than all this, however, is that he still can run around and pump out his lies and false claims on how the was betrayed and that he had won the last elections and bla and bla and blablabla, and so many people let hoim get away with it even belie it. - Noam Chomsky, anyone? ;) He executes Chomsky principles by the letter of the study book. You also find them in the way the state in Orwell's 1984 executes its means of communication control to overwhelm the reasonable thinking and reality-based perception, by this destroying the frame of contexts any reaosning necessarily must base on. And by that, thinking itself gets effectively prevented. Or better: assassinated.

Ironcially, the left, the wpoke, the greens the gender-gagas do exactyl the same. All political camps and sides do it nowadays. And all contribute to the destruction of freedom, self-responsibility, resonsibility towards the other.

Its a nightmare. It leads us into total dictatorship, you'll see. And if not you, if you are already too old, your kids will. One does not wish to tell them. And there seems to be no place anymore where you could turn to to flee, to escape.

Mexican Government: 1.39 Million People From Nearly Every Country In The World Traveling To Mexico To Get Into The US Illegally

Nearly every country in the world has had citizens travel through Mexico attempting to get into the United States illegally without papers.

DONALD STANDEFORD

https://www.ssj.news/p/mexico-139-mi...le-from-nearly

Quote:

MEXICO - According to the Mexican government on Sunday, about 1.39 million people from 177 different countries traveled through Mexico in an attempt to get into the United States illegally.

As there are 195 countries in the world, the 177-country figure indicates that nearly every country in the world has had citizens travel through Mexico attempting to get into the United States without papers.

Mexico's National Migration Institute reported figures from January to May of this year and stated that most of those traveling across Mexico to get into the United States were people traveling alone, with nearly 3,000 being minors without the accompaniment of an adult.

380,000 of those attempting to gain access to the United States through Mexico were coming from Venezuela, after which are: Guatemala, Honduras, Ecuador, and Haiti. Others came from China, India, Mauritania and Angola, according to the institute.

Some Chinese citizens who have successfully gained entrance into the United States illegally were issued IDs by Mexico labeling them as "humanitarian workers" or "visitors" which one U.S. senator says is likely so that the Chinese nationals can show that they have a valid reason to be in Mexico.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar (Post 2916566)

Well, as I have stated before I believe, I am a lawyer in RL (now retired) and learned a long time ago that most journalists have very little understanding of how the law actually works. nothing beats going to the source and forming your own opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2916568)

Well that is the rub, SCOTUS did not answer that question except in one case (i.e. interaction with acting AG Clark) and instead threw it back to the trial judge to make a determination of what is “official” and not “official”.

Again we have to remember that the court has to make a decision that applies to ALL Presidents, not just one tailored to make Trump lose the election.

The one case I keep going back to is when President Obama ordered the assassination of U.S. citizens. It was drone strikes on presumed terrorists, but without immunity, could Obama be charged with murder? That is why you need Presidential immunity for certain actions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat (Post 2916581)

The one case I keep going back to is when President Obama ordered the assassination of U.S. citizens. It was drone strikes on presumed terrorists, but without immunity, could Obama be charged with murder? That is why you need Presidential immunity for certain actions.

This action was understandable. These American choose to join ISIS and became terrorist, so they were a legitim target.

How about American soil ?
Can an American President give the order to strike against some opponent, as mentioned some times in the thread.

If it was terrorist I would understand it would be ok.

Edit
He can if it is terrorist
https://irp.fas.org/agency/doj/olc092501.html
End edit

Markus

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc (Post 2916582)

The assassination or execution of U.S. citizens presumed guilty of any crime used to be something most Americans frowned upon.

So many folks seemingly worried about President Trump killing them, now if it was President Hillary I could understand them being worried. :har:

More than likely why you Europeans are scared because he'll raise the price of LNG since Biden blew up your pipeline :salute:

Quote:

Current Trends and Demand

Rising Demand for Diversification: Europe continues to prioritize LNG imports to diversify its gas supply and reduce reliance on Russian pipeline gas. The continent's efforts to secure LNG from various sources were accelerated by the geopolitical shifts following the Russia-Ukraine conflict (IEEFA) (Shell Global).
Growing U.S. Exports: U.S. LNG exports have surged, with Europe becoming the primary destination. In 2022, nearly 70% of U.S. LNG exports were directed to Europe, meeting a significant portion of its gas demand (PE Media Network) (EIA Homepage). This trend is expected to continue, supported by the expansion of U.S. LNG capacity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto Harkaman (Post 2916610)

More than likely why you Europeans are scared because he'll raise the price of LNG since Biden blew up your pipeline :salute:

So who in particular are you referring too when you accuse them of being scared?