It wasn't a comparison, just a demonstration that NATO does not have to back member states in aggressive wars. If Turkey sends military ships into a blockade zone in an attempt to run the blockade or to aid other ships to do so, that is an act of war (an aggressive act of war). NATO would not, nor could not back such a move (NATO is a defensive alliance only).

Hmm interesting dodge, rather then address my point, you sidestep it completely and go after an area that my country has nothing to be proud about. Frankly I agree with you that the history and state of affairs is bad. Though not as bad as you may think (it has gotten a lot better over the years). Anyhow I am not going to get into a discussion over that here, as it is totally off topic. If you want to pursue that course, then start a new thread.

There are plenty of areas where they could set up which would not put the civilian populace in as much danger to counter strikes from Israel. But that defeats the purpose, as Hamas wants as high a civilian body count as possible. The more dead women and children of their own side the better, as they can then take it to the media and cry over how horrible the Jews are. They also pick areas of high civilian population (particularly areas where children can be found like schools) partly to force the Israelis to kill civilians just to get at Hamas, but also to blunt Israel's ability to attack them successfully (forcing Israel to either ignore the target, or give advanced warning). Hamas doesn't give a flying **** about their own people or their welfare.



Anyhow with forum moderator cap on...

I am getting rather tired of the amount of personal ridicule I am seeing in this thread and others lately. I would strongly suggest that those engaging in such behavior try a more respectful approach when interacting with other forum members. Consider this a warning as I am going to start handing out infractions soon for such bad behavior.

True.

"Passive aggression"? So, when all those students were sitting at Tianammen, they were "passively violent" against the Chinese government? No wonder the Chinese crushed them with tanks...

Since both are laws concerning control and freedom of navigation on the seas, I'll say that they are far more similar than your attempt to separate them makes them seem. At least most countries actually explicitly SIGNED their agreement regarding the national waters stuff in UNCLOS. I don't see a lot of nations legitmizing Israel's blockade.

"Self-defence" generally does not extend to attacking other people's ships. You are taking a blockade of dubious legality to justify attacking other nation's ships, a clearly illegal act.

Ah, so they are not military deliveries...

Oh, so they aren't a military aggressor now?

Actually, this is the position of rule-of-law, which judges all equally by actions conducted, not the perceived morals of a person. Whether they are Communists, Islamics or Christians, really trying to help Palestinians or just trying to snub Israel, they conducted one set of actions, and right and wrong should be assessed on that basis.

Their freedom to do so is guaranteed by Freedom of Navigation, Israel's only by its near-unilateral blockade.

If we start with the premise that Israel's boarding was legally wrong (and of course the guys on board would believe that), then this is truly legitimate (if somewhat doomed) self-defense.

I don't blame the Israeli soldiers - they were just following orders.

Are you trying with all force to misunderstand him?:06:

He does.

I think the matter is not important here anymore. To turn and twist things and facts, words and arguments so much as is needed for letting it appear that it is okay to again blame Israel - this is what it is about now.

I will maybe reply to any thoughts of yours again once you have come back to a minimum sense of realism and truthfulness in what you say, Kazuaki. Not before. Becasue with your last post, you just chase your own tail and mistake that for a long distance travel.

So according to you...Turkey vs. Israel - war is on now! :o

Well you compared the Palestinians efforts to get their homeland to 9/11, a really 'original' and 'clever' comparison indeed. :shifty: But if you compare the reactions of UK and Spain to the bombings in those countries and you see a much more moderate reaction. Not every country feels the need to erase entire nations in order to "set the record straight".

You know if I had to choose on which side I was I'd definitely choose Israel. I mean, it's a lot safer to sit in a tank or a helicopter or a fighter jet and shoot missiles then it is to be on the receiving end and retaliate with what amounts to home made rockets that are probably more dangerous to the users then the intended target, which is pretty much never hit.

But I guess because of the presumed darker skintone of the Palestinians you for one could never sympatize with their cause. :roll:

What are you getting involved there for?

Just answer the question Skybird.

Ye Ye YE:know:

Should visit those targets sometimes.:damn::damn:
Im for artillery retaliation much more cheaper and good for keeping quiet general population-just a joke

But me saying that being safer in a tank doesn't mean that the Palestinians aren't morally right in the cause. Finns had to fight against the Soviet tanks with Molotov Cocktails and bits of logs that they used to jam the tracks of the tanks. Being the underdog sucks but it's necessary sometimes.

http://zombie.clue-free.com/tpt/newstuff/NukeOrbit.jpg

:03:

This discussion is going in circle so i jut say this....

Palestinians have right to Palestinian state (since they seem to want it so much)and most Israelis accepted that.
But... they do all they can to screw themselves up.(look Oslo agreements and later)
They almost got what they SEEMED to want just with stones an Molotov coctails...but it turned out it was about all or nothing.
I'm not blaming common Palestinian(well maybe a little bit since old saying says people get government their deserved) but their terrorist leaders who get influenced easily.

With the money and arms the Hamas gets they could actually attack only military targets only, what they dont have is the motivation to train and form doctrines and tactics.

They have taken the easy route with terrorism, must a be a cultural thing.

I really doubt ts has anything to do with skintone, Israel has wider collection of those.
Its not difficult to sympathize with a civilized people against those that preach murder and destruction in a medieval tone.

http://yle.fi/ecepic/archive/00319/1...en_319185b.jpg

Some 1200 people marched in Helsinki today to show support for Israel.

:salute:

That's good to know....I'm sure there are many more in Finland who share the same viewpoint :yep:

How typically racist of you to say something like that.

I find Israel's silence concerning it's own acts much more sinister. I'm sure the Palestinians would rather change places with the Israelis instead of languishing in the refugee camps decade after decade.

There is a neighborhood in Jerusalem which is defined as refuge camp called Shoufat - many reach Palestinians live there....
Gaza wasn't so bad too till well...truble started.
Most Gazans were working in Israel and lived well by Arab countries standards.