Our current system is not perfect either but not fixing what is wrong first then proceeding is just stupid. What, replace a imperfect systems with another one? As far at the poor comment, I did not choose to pay for poor peoples misgivings. BTW, I can show you many who choose to be poor. You can start with a few bums in my family and my wife's family.

Highly unlikely but have fun with it anyway! :O:

The same frown as Capitalism and Conserative receives. So what is to explain?

A majority of the problem created was a group effort. This includes the folks who took loans above and beyond their means to pay it back. Please assess some of the blame on the consumer. No on force them to sign a loan that could not be paid back. These are the same folks who ran credit card through the roof and were living off their homes in a refinance. Cut me a break on the just pointed at one group or a few that created this issue.


Please explain how you determined BO is brave? What, he will walk the streets of Chicago after dark? :har:

Our current system is not perfect either but not fixing what is wrong first then proceeding is just stupid. What, replace a imperfect systems with another one? As far at the poor comment, I did not choose to pay for poor peoples misgivings. BTW, I can show you many who choose to be poor. You can start with a few bums in my family and my wife's family.
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Yeah - but surely its no more socialist or whatever - to the way your/my Tax dollars are collected and spent?


Highly unlikely but have fun with it anyway! :O:
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I was being sarcastic :DL


The same frown as Capitalism and Conserative receives. So what is to explain?
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Fair enough - no alot i guess, Ill give you that one :up:


A majority of the problem created was a group effort. This includes the folks who took loans above and beyond their means to pay it back. Please assess some of the blame on the consumer. No on force them to sign a loan that could not be paid back. These are the same folks who ran credit card through the roof and were living off their homes in a refinance. Cut me a break on the just pointed at one group or a few that created this issue.

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No, I still blame the banks, it is there responisibily to not over lend, what the hell where they doing handing out huge sums to those who obviosuly could not afford to pay it back?
While both banker and ocnsumer are guilty of greed, the banks has the power to prevent it - and they did not.


Please explain how you determined BO is brave? What, he will walk the streets of Chicago after dark? :har:

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:haha:
Well I was refering to bringing this heath care bill to table in the first place. As its obviously a pretty radical move for you guys -and was bound to be met with vast opposition and even hatred.
Not to mention he recieves an adverage of 30 death threats a day. (Probably just few white supremecist retards though)

Sorry, no. Again, no one forced the signature. People are to read the contracts. I have walked from quite a few contracts. Come on, you mean to tell me people sat and thought gee, I can afford $100/month mortgage because I bring home $101/month. What, no eating, utilities, vehicles, etc? By no stretch of the imagination....people got loans they could afford. Then the credit card offers came pouring in. These cards were maxed. Then the trouble began. Refinance the banks says. So the folks do but then they run their now zero'd out cards up again. The cycle starts. I been there brother and it ain't pretty. I learned my lesson on living off credit cards and refinancing the house into the ground. Come on, the bank would not approve someone who was way over their head in a loan. I have seen it plenty of times in my own situation and long before the implosion a year ago.


Then Hillary Clinton must be a Storm Trooper! She not only did this during Bill's administration but almost got it done without being the President herself. Nothing new here or brave by OB.

You need to qualify the last statement on the threats. Need some proof. I would venture to guess he receives no more than any other president.

Well, agree to disagree regarding the Bankers, as I can only honestly go by the way they are in the UK.
personal experience of my own -I seem to remember as soon as I turned 18, getting bomabarded with junk mail and cold calls encouraging me to apply for silly loans and credit cards, it was the same for my friends too, like the f**kers just couldnt wait to get us all in to debt. That is no way to have someone start their adult life :(

Regarding death threats.. Sad but apparently true...

"Since Mr Obama took office, the rate of threats against the president has increased 400 per cent from the 3,000 a year or so under President George W. Bush,"

linky

The Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...t-Service.html

CNN
http://pubrecord.org/multimedia/4273...omment-page-1/

You can find more sources on google: search for 'Obama & death threats'.

This is just find No. 1 when asking google for polls.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/121664/ma...this-year.aspx

If I would need to make an estimation on majorites being reported from the Us over the past 6 months or so, I would say that around 55-60% of people are in favour of the reform, and around 35-40 are beign against it.

and as long as you do not have a hidden ministry that keeps US polls published inside the US and US polls published in foreign countries and reports about them strictly separate, and makes sure the latter do not get published inside the US, then this is the general trend I remember to have seen there since the debate began: a small but real majority of "one half +" of the population being in favour, and a minority of "one third and some more" being against it. An estimation of 55:35 or 55:40 being in favour matches the general mood quite well, I get the impression.

Needless to say that those 35% or 40% have shown to be incredibly noisy over the past couple of months.

I agree to agee on disagreeing! I would say the UK is different in some respects concerning the loans. Really, here in the state banks do not award loans on folks who can not afford them. That is like me giving you a dollar knowing you can not pay it back and I would incur additional expenses with the court costs. Not good business sense. Loans are approved on gross income. People need to base the cost of keeping a home with what cash is actually in hand to spend. Some do and some don't. Not the banks fault. Anyway, here in the states if you get a nice fat loan approval the credit card companies will give you all kinds of credit cards. You are seen now as a non-risk because ABC Loans just approved you for $350,000.00. Great! Off the consumer goes and runs the cards up. I'm talking $10,0000+. It is not survivable is not handled correctly. Like I said, I been there and done that. 15 years ago I was up to my neck in debt. My home was two months behind. I had to claw my way out. You know what, the bank did not put me there. I put me there. High time people take some responsibily for their actions or lack their of.

Good link for the threats. How many does Obama actually see? Well, zero. That is what secret service is for. Does it worry him? I would say no as he declined body guards during the campaign. He was forced to have them once nominated. Secret Service are on double time with Obama. You can bet your next bank loan on that one.

I agree to agee on disagreeing! I would say the UK is different in some respects concerning the loans. Really, here in the state banks do not award loans on folks who can not afford them. That is like me giving you a dollar knowing you can not pay it back and I would incur additional expenses with the court costs. Not good business sense. Loans are approved on gross income. People need to base the cost of keeping a home with what cash is actually in hand to spend. Some do and some don't. Not the banks fault. Anyway, here in the states if you get a nice fat loan approval the credit card companies will give you all kinds of credit cards. You are seen now as a non-risk because ABC Loans just approved you for $350,000.00. Great! Off the consumer goes and runs the cards up. I'm talking $10,0000+. It is not survivable if not handled correctly. Like I said, I been there and done that. 15 years ago I was up to my neck in debt. My home was two months behind. I had to claw my way out. You know what, the bank did not put me there. I put me there. High time people take some responsibily for their actions or lack there of.

Good link for the threats. How many does Obama actually see? Well, zero. That is what secret service is for. Does it worry him? I would say no as he declined body guards during the campaign. He was forced to have them once nominated. Secret Service are on double time with Obama. You can bet your next bank loan on that one.

Get an updated one Skybird:



http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...th_care_reform

Good thing my will favors it.

Well, possible that I am indeed not up to date with the very latest ones. Nevertheless, polls are polls, and I still do not think that although there has been a drop in favouring the reform, there is such a "huge margin" between the pro and contra camp as Steam Wake claimed.

Gallup 13th-Novembre:
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noe...responsibility

A poll that close should not be taken as a fundament to assume the opinion war is already decided. thgere seem to have a shift recently, though - this I have to admit.

I'm TOTALLY for universal healthcare or some kind of bill that supports something similar. The bill that's going through now is just the kind of thing that would help people like me (disabled), my sister (also disabled with schitzophrenia), and my wife (laid off and no one wants to hire her for other than temp work, which pays pennies and nowhere near enough for her to afford health insurance. God forbid should something happen to her)

I REALLY don't understand what the conservatives are so afraid of.
We either need a way to get people who can't afford health insurance insured somehow, or somehow regulate the costs of healthcare and drugs (especially drugs because the drug companies are REALLY REALLY inflating their prices).
There are SO many struggling people like me and my family that NEEDS a bill like this. Private companies rates are just way too high for lower middle to lower class people to afford.

Almost every other country in the world has some kind of universal healthcare that is working as well as lower drug costs ! The only reason I can see people not likeing this is greed. Pure and simple.

There is a trend certainly. The once starry-eyed Obama voter is getting leery.

I truly have no issue with a government run program. However, it should be competative with the private sector insurance plans. To participate everyone needs to pay. If you are not part of the government run program then you do not have to pay into that program. If you fail to purchase insurance you are fined. In the state of MD you are fined for not having car insurance. No reason that could not be done here. The bill is riddle with wholes and unanswered questions. It is typical legislation from Capital Hill.....muddled, confused and pushed.

I personally rate his lacking success and failure in foreign politics as more severe, with more serious longterm conseqeunces. Especially regarding Israel and the ME he has shown a stunning lack of insight. Europeans meanwzhile have woken up climate issues. Much more hopes and expectations had grown over here, regarding Obama. But I said early this year that especially for Europe there will be a tough waking-up over Obama, didn't I.

But that is what makes me wondering a bit, you see. From all problems, the health reform maybe is the most unimportant for you americans, since the growth in debts and deficits it will casue is more of a concern for the rest of the world and global economy, than just your own country. Yet you treat this health reform as if it decides the fate of thr world between heaven and hell. that makes us people over here scratching our heads and thinking about misled standards.

Without really knowing what "it" is... :O: