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-   -   Here we go again-Ukraine once again (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=249066)

Skybird 02-25-22 11:40 AM

FOCUS writes:


[...] Germany has aggressively ignored this change in Russia and Putin. With the blessing of Chancellor Angela Merkel and her Social Democratic foreign minister, Frank Walter Steinmeier, construction on Nord Stream 2 began a year after Russia invaded Ukraine [Crimea]

At that time, the Baltics and the Poles warned - the same countries, in other words, that would have liked to see Russia excluded from the Swift system. This is not a coincidence. Germany misjudged Putin, it was a historical mistake. Poles and Balts had no illusions about Putin and Russians - they have been victims of Russian imperialism, which has been and still is over corpses.

It has often been written: Putin considers the West weak and decadent. Many in Germany, but most in the political class, have shaken their heads at this, along the lines of: what an idiot.

Putin may be a war criminal, but he is not an idiot. He is, like every dictator, one who takes what he wants and sets his own rules.

Putin knows Germany. And its opportunism. He was right.


Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


States have no friends, states have interests. But the cynism is sickening.

Catfish 02-25-22 11:41 AM

China’s Xi asks Putin to negotiate with Ukraine

"China’s position would be based on the right and wrong in relation to the Ukraine issue itself", Chinese president says.

https://www.politico.eu/article/chin...tiate-ukraine/

Rockstar 02-25-22 11:42 AM

If we cut Russian banks from SWIFT. Germany and the U.S. would be the one’s most hurt by it and if Russia is already prepared for such a sanction then what’s the point of doing it?

I think now it’s just turned towards internal political party posturing.


I could be wrong as I don’t know very much about SWIFT. But if it was an easy decision I think it would have been done by now.

Skybird 02-25-22 11:49 AM

We are financing the war of attack against Ukraine that way, Rockstar. We have then no right to criticise Pujtin- we assist him actively. We help him to finance his assault on the Ukraine. Thats what we do.

A few weeks ago there was a news or docu on German TV I think about Russia'S attempt to install an alternative to SWIFT. They said the effort produced a system that is pathetic at best, has way too few acceptance partners and banks connected, as if it could compete with SWIFT, not to mention: replace it. It cannot, they said. It cannot replace it most likely, SWIFT has over 11 thousand banks connected globally, the Russian system only a very few, all of them being Russian, and internationally: a few acceptance points in states that are close vasalls of Russia. Ids any of them a major economic hub? No, none.

It would hurt us in Germany most, and some others, yes. But it would hurt Russia still much, much more.

And it is the right thing to do. Nobody forced us to bring ourselves into ever deepening dependency from Russia. Our foreign political dogma of "change by trade" has exploded into our face: in China, in Iran, in Turkey, in Russia, in then Arab Spring, in Afghanistan. Illusions and more illusions. German foreign policy dogmata and all the many diplomatic life-long lies to ourselves have just been "armageddonised". We directly financially support the Russian war of attack against Ukraine. Let that sink in. We directly finance Russia's war of attack against Ukrane. You as well, and quite some more. We finance and support it. Trump may like the conception of this. I spit on it.

Rockstar 02-25-22 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2795426)
We are financing the war of attack agai8nst Ukraine that way, Rockstar. We have then no right to criticise Pujtin- we assist him actively.



A few weeks ago there was a news or docu on German TV I think about Russia'S attempt to install an alternative to SWIFT. They said the effort priduced a system that is olathetic ta best, has way too many accpetka nce partners and banks connected as if it could even compete with SWIFT, not to mention: repalc eit. It cannot replac eit most likely, SWIFT has over 11 thousand banks globally, the Russian system only a very few, all of them being Russian, and internationally: a few acceptance points in states that are close vasalls of Russia.



It would hzurt us Germany most, and some others, yes. But it would hurt Russia still much, much more.



And it is the right thing to do. We directly financially support the Russian war of attack against Ukraine. Let that sink in. We directly finance Russia's war of attack against Ukrane. We finance and support it. Trump may like the conception of this. I spit on it.


Jesushchrist this doesn’t have squat to do with the orange man. None of what Putin is doing should come as a surprise to our countries spooks and leaders, Russia has been preparing for this since at the very least 2014. Other than shooting ourselves in the foot and accelerating Russia’s voluntary switch from SWIFT to China’s CIP what does disconnecting Russia from SWIFT accomplish especially if they been saving their rubles and have immediate alternatives? Personally I think Putin has us over a barrel.

Andreas86 02-25-22 12:01 PM

Well RT.com is still up on my end.

But I cannot access the russian defense ministry website.

Skybird 02-25-22 12:02 PM

So you say we should continue in participating in the rape of Ukraine, because if we stop it, it nevertheless would not mean that the Russians stop, too?

China and Russia are no allies, and Xi and Putin are no friends, they are still too far apart and have too different interests, even have conflicts in ideology, policies, and even territories. Let the two do what they want, we must not conspire with them in the raping of their assaulted victims.

I just said it before. Its the right thing to do (to stop financing them). Either you get it or you don't. Its the right thing to do. The only right thing. Evertyhing else we do leaves us not being one bit better than Russia or China. We then are like them.

Skybird 02-25-22 12:12 PM

In response to U.S. sanctions in the Ukraine war, Russia's space chief has warned that the ISS could crash into the United States. U.S. President Biden is probably unaware of how important Russian engines are for the 500-ton space station, he said. Europe could also be affected.

The head of Russia's space agency has warned of an uncontrolled crash of the International Space Station (ISS) as a consequence of U.S. sanctions in the Ukraine war. The debris of the 500-ton construction could then possibly hit the USA or Europe.

Thats at least a score for original and imaginative thinking. Whether it is realistic or not, I cannot assess.

Skybird 02-25-22 12:20 PM

Russia is threatening Finland in the event that the neighboring state moves further toward NATO membership. Should Finland consider joining NATO, this would have "serious military and political consequences," a spokeswoman for the Russian Foreign Ministry said. Finland's existing neutrality is seen as an important factor in ensuring security and stability in northern Europe.

In the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin had said that her country could imagine joining NATO to safeguard national security.

Maybe we should create facts on the ground with no time left for Russia to react, and sell them tactical nukes that coluld reach Murmansk, Archangelsk and the likes.



Granting NATO membership has a hook in it. The alliance must be certain that it can actually defend that new member in case of article 5 being called. Thats a question of logistics, terrain and geography, forces available. Coul NATO defend Finland? Georgia? Ukraine? It already cannot defend the Baltic states, Hungary, Slovenia, probably also not Poland.And whether Bulgaria even would want to get defended again is an issue, they are still very close with Russia.

Jimbuna 02-25-22 12:49 PM

Russian troops are in northern districts of the capital Kyiv, Ukraine says, and video shows armoured vehicles advancing.

The UK says the "bulk" of Russian troops advancing on the city remain more than 50km away.

Vladimir Putin tells Ukrainian troops to overthrow their own country's leadership.

Meanwhile the Ukrainian government calls on citizens to make Molotov cocktails and defend the city.

Ukraine's interior ministry also says 18,000 guns have been given to volunteers.

And Ukraine's President Zelensky releases a defiant video, saying he's not leaving.

Russian forces say they have taken control of Hostomel airfield near Kyiv.

Russia is stripped of Champions League final, kicked out of 2022 Eurovision Song Contest, and stopped from hosting F1 Grand Prix.

Aktungbby 02-25-22 01:56 PM

AsI stated earlier, they are friends enough; Putin has enough faith in his Sino relations to have transferred needed units from the Chinese boarder to the Ukranian conflict... right out of Stalin's handbook in WWII. Arguably the strongest sanction(s) yet!:arrgh!: China twofacedly, having stated that Ukraine boarders shouldn't be violated has offered to buy Russian wheat in violation of Western sanctions ie: money, the sinews of war, talks; and SinoBovine Scatology walks...I 'spect China will move on Taiwan shortly in an Authoritarian weighted pendulum military movement- first the russian left...then the chinese right; as the US, as in 1939, faces a two-front conflict...:hmmm:

Jimbuna 02-25-22 02:01 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L17Bi7zBJHI

Skybird 02-25-22 02:17 PM

A former German general said on the status of the Bundeswehr/Heer (= army) the supply status is such that the BW can equip just one brigade, one single brigade, as combat-ready and war-ready.

1 brigade.

Even I had to gulp.

The Bavarian minister president said today that in principle the Bundeswehr has to be build new from scratch.

Jimbuna 02-25-22 02:22 PM

^ Aye, how the once mighty have now fallen :yep:

mapuc 02-25-22 02:24 PM

Hundreds if not thousands of Ukrainian men from Denmark and Sweden have left their new country and family they are on their way to Ukraine to help in fighting the Ruskies.

Wonder how many do this from other European countries ?

Markus

Catfish 02-25-22 02:40 PM

Russia has to be kicked out of SWIFT, i wonder what takes them so long. Let him do business with China, we will see how this fares.. Even the slow thinking Baerbock supports this now lol.
The other idea is to go after Putin's personal money being deposited abroad via middle men and Putin-loyal oligarchs. I hope Johnson understands what this means.

Putin has said the #1 goal is to kill Zelensky, publicly, before running cameras. You have to digest this. This is not rational thinking. If anyone has "brass balls" here it is Zelensky, surely not an elderly psychopath in Moscow. It will be over soon, but Putin at least seems to get a bloody nose. Not him personally, unfortunately.

edit: re Skybird, there was an interesting report this morning on the DLF (Deutschlandfunk) radio, about the state the german Bundeswehr is in. I knew it was bad, but this..
If Europe survives the next months there will have to be a bit of rethinking some positions, and 'strategy'.

clayton 02-25-22 03:00 PM

No mighty have fallen! It's Putin’s ass one step in NATO territory.

Onkel Neal 02-25-22 03:02 PM

So essentially, all that bluster from Pres. Dementia amounts to very little.

Quote:

President Biden announced the supposedly crushing sanctions that he’s been warning Putin of for months. They are tougher than any previous round of sanctions against Moscow and will exact real costs on Russia’s government, military, and state-dominated financial, energy, and tech sectors. Yet Biden made a telling concession. He said the sanctions will take time to bite and never were meant to deter Putin, despite repeated statements previously from him and his officials that that was exactly what we sought to do. Notably, we aren’t excluding Russia from the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT), the cooperative that enables international financial transactions. This would have exacted enormous, immediate economic pain on Russia, but the Europeans blanched at the idea since it would surely lead Putin to stop exporting the oil and gas they’ve made themselves so reliant on. Meanwhile, Germany’s suspension of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline is less than meets the eye, since the pipeline was not yet operative. And, bizarrely, we are not yet sanctioning Putin himself.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/...utm_term=first

clayton 02-25-22 03:03 PM

I'm having a difficult time determining who the patriots are on this site.

Catfish 02-25-22 03:19 PM

It seems the german authorities are all for getting Russia out of SWIFT now. They thought of it as a means of last resort, but this time has come now.
I hope it is not just words again.


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