Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2883341)

Problem is western tanks are designed predominantly with tank on tank combat on mind - which practically does not take place in this war. Tanks mostly get taken out by drones, atgm, mines, helicopters - not by rounds from enemy tanks.

Western takes will harvest on other vehicles and targets. But they suffer losses from threats that are not what they were örimarily hardened against : tank rounds.

Originally Posted by tonschk (Post 2883259)

But the price Ukraine have paid for these small gains is already too high.

The whole idea of throwing waves and waves of ukrainian soldiers across heavily mined and fortified open terrain, under the watchful eyes of Russian drones, just shows the callousness of both the West and the Ukrainian leadership. It wasn’t so much an offensive as have been a massacre.


As Ukraine’s offensive stalls, are negotiations on the agenda?

https://socialist.net/as-ukraines-of...on-the-agenda/

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2883287)

To classify the current front breakthrough.


https://i.postimg.cc/2SWtpmFK/Unbenannt.png
[Neue Zürcher Zeitung, interactive map]

The red circle southwest of the blue breach area is Tokmak. The dark dotted line is railway.

I wonder what kind of terrain the area further south of the current breach is, the Russians have almost no fortifications there (according to this map at least) and seem to rely on the terrain protecting them...?! Without knowledge of that terrain one cannot assess whether or not it is an option to move south and then turn west for Melitopol to bypass all the defences that lie on a straight line between Tokmak and Melitopol. Probably swamps or anything else that prevents mechanized forces from moving through?!

The railway should theoretically alreadsy now be in range of tube artillery, but probably at the risk of having to set up that artillery in range of Russian counter artillery.

It looks as if the Ukrainians indeed have swung the wheel around. :yeah: Looks as if the only thing that can stop them now is lacking reserves to keep the offensive pushing, but one woudl assume they know that themselkves and somehow take care of that. But obviuously they need a constant stream of ammo and weapons from the West.



--------------


Ukraine claims it can now reahc targets in Russia 1500km away, with weapons from own production, it insists that it doies not use Western-delivered weapons for strikes into Russia, a sit always has promsied. There is not a single violation known so far. - You hear that, Bubble Olaf?

Originally Posted by mapuc (Post 2883342)

The reason why I wrote in another type of warfare.

Ukrainian are also getting these together with the Abrams

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

Markus

Originally Posted by Dargo (Post 2883349)

To add. One breakthrough in the frontline is not enough, Ukraine needs to break through on other places too else Russia can concentrate their defense on Tokmak to further slow the Ukraine offensive.

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2883377)

It does not need an uranium SABOT to pierce a vehicle that is not a tank. And as non-explosive, it is no good choice to bust bunkers or buildings as long as it is not desperate circumstances.
Possible the uranium SABOT reaches farther than HE(AT), compensating for the loss of kinetic energy compared to a non-uraniu SABOT. But how often do you have terrain and weather that you trade tank rounds at 5 km ?

Originally Posted by Catfish (Post 2883381)

The people dying for Russia are hardly "russians" or Putin's soldiers, or to put it directly:
No casualties from St. Petersburg or Moscow.

https://i.imgur.com/jgFaM4el.jpg

If Putin continues I guess it will change soon.

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2883384)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-in-stronghold





He says the sweocnd line is less fortified than the first. So far OI always red that the firts liune is the weakets and the third the strongest. Hm. Fog of War. For of misinformation.

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2883378)

Russia already now must split its supplies to the defence of Tokmak area, and their counteroffensive at Kupjansk. The Ukrainian offensive at this stage looks like the far more threatening of the two.