Thanks for trying:up:

Don't get me wrong, I do want AI Japanese subs in this game. SH1 had them. SH3 and SH4 have numerous AI ships. SH4 should have a few types of AI Japanese subs that have realistic habits and behavior. For now, I am keeping quiet until I know more about the game. A few months more and we should have more info. It will not be too late to focus on a few key features and push for them...

...of course, it helps is everyone agrees on what are key features. :ping:

Even though they weren't encountered as much, the enemy subs were there. I think SH1 overdid it as far as that went. I remember seeing them on a regular basis, and I don't think the IJN had "that" many in their inventory.

I think you're right Neal, it's still a bit premature. Still plenty of time to get the most important things desired, as long as everyone can come to a mutual agreement. There are other things that can always be added later as modder add-ons, or patches.

Maybe the Devs should put a list together for what is still realistically feasable to put in, and let everyone vote on it. That way everyone has a say in what will be accomplished by the release date. I'm sure they have lots to pick and choose from, and this would let the community participate in what gets added, and what can be dropped for the time being. And if everything gets done ahead of schedule, they can maybe pull a few things from the grab bag if there's time enough left.

One thing that has bugged me is that every sub sim never has any ships colliding after a torpedo attack. Not that it should happen all the time, but once in a while, it would be nice to see a couple ships make a turning error and run into each other. It did happen from time to time, panick and a hasty order to start turning the wrong direction. It's been close in SHIII but no cigar. The ships always seem to stop and reverse before impacting.

Even if they didn't have time to put everything in, it would be nice to see an add on come out six months later with more of what we would like, such as more ship types, AI subs, extra aircraft types, maybe even a extra playable sub or two.

I'm not going to jump to conclusions on the game before it's finished, as we don't know what in or out. I just hope they get it stable and easy to use.

From what I've seen it looks good, but it's hard to tell from a 60 second Video and a couple of screen shots.

Let's not be to hard on the dev team, remember, there human too:up:

Hehe, hello back to you, too, ubi!

/waves

What are the odds eh? running into a japanese sub on patrol or passing an ubi soft representative on these boards?

As for AI subs, nice to have them, but I _REALLY_ put that lower on my list of things I want improved in SHIV.

My own pet peeve is to get the manual target solution making to work better. With mod tools and a tutorial I got pretty good at it in SH3. But it was obvious to me that the designers didn't entirely understand how it worked, and therefore didn't give us the proper tools for it.

I hope so much this aspect will be fixed. That and the 8000 m visibility range of SH3 (for shame!)

They do watch the boards, friend, we know that beyond all doubt. They just apparently have a policy of "staying submerged". Each to their own.

Has to take a ton of persistance, watching this board as a lurker and not registering and posting:p.

I'm going to say I"m interested in the Idea of doing new and different missions, but what exactly are the New and Improved upgrades over SH3? Of course it is early on...so we dont know for sure, but this Q/A session didnt seem to put the idea that SH4 is New and improved over SH3. Nothing seemed to jump out at me and say "WOW, this is something I Must go out and buy". Some good stuff put out...but some definite major downers as well.

Waiting for more!

Yup... they most certainly are here. Wanna know why they prefer to stay under cover?

From this thread alone...

"some definite major downers"
"it was obvious to me that the designers didn't entirely understand how it worked, "
"Well here are the downers for SH4 for me:"
"I expected more out of SH4 and so far it died out pretty quickly for me"
"a mod that would allow us to play in pacifig in sh3 sounds more interesting than sh4 "
"Ubisoft using that crappy star-force copy protection junk"
"I smell a rat every time the game is 'tuned' for an american audience "
"It is a quest for the teenage arcade audience "
"is really putting me off this game"
" 8000 m POS that SH3 launched with"
"You all really need to open your eyes and look at the bigger picture once in a while."

With between 5 and 7 months to go can you blame them for staying submerged?

JCC

John is dead on the money.

And just as a side note, I remember reading a Silent Hunter III interview where the developers stated that they didn't think it'd be a good idea to have a delay from the time you gave orders to when the order was carried out. They used a scenario where you need to rapidly crash-dive as an example (and admittedly, it would probably save a good deal of German subs and doom a good deal of enemy merchants and warships if orders were carried out instantly).

Yet, here we are, playing a Silent Hunter III where it takes several seconds for an order to be carried out. You hit the hot-key, the appropriate officer acknowledges and passes the order on, and then the crew starts to execute it. It's great.

So don't worry so much, people. Changes happen.

Can you blame us??? Really?? Come on......we just represent the part of the Subsim community that actually (or at least puts it out there) wants a something new and improved....is that so much to ask for?? Sure it is way early in the developement...but this is the time to push (actually a little late) to make damn sure you get a top notch product. Anyone actually remember the development of SH3???? That game was not even suppose to have a Campaign:huh:

I'll be the first to admit that the level of whining and groaning with SH3 got to the point of everyone thinking they deserved a specific add on to the game. But some obvious things where just left out that 90% of everyone wanted....for whatever reason (I think time was the critical factor). Now when they tell you " For now, the stations will remain the same. We still believe that captain’s job keeps him in the command and attack center of the sub most of the time."...come on...honestly...read between the lines!

And my Favorite of the Month: "SH3 was a buggy mess" :rotfl:

That guy must have never played Fast Attack, eh, John ;)

You have a point. But as John says, we can get heard and have improvements to the game without stooping to the level of ranting spewmonkies. :doh:

And it's either be 100% quiet or be downright rude? No in-between?

A lot of features that "everybody" want aren't really features that everybody want. You're sure the whole community wants a certain feature, and then somebody makes a poll and it's 40% for and 40% against, 20% undecided.

As for 3D compartments, while there was admittedly a majority for all of the sub's compartments being 3D models, the count was far from 90%.

Nothing wrong with wanting more. Nothing wrong with asking for it, either.

Where the problem arises is with the snse of entitlement that is already rearing it's head. Some people seem to think that because they may plunk down $30, $40 or $50 they have a right to talk to developers any way that they feel. They forget that these are real people they are talking to. One of the worst aspects of this is when people take a cheap shot at UbiSoft.... forgetting that it is not some faceless corporation that is producing these products, but real people.

It is the small percentage of enthusiasts that yell the loudest and make the demands that cause the problems. They make no allowance for the reality of software developement or, more importantly, the human factor.

I have seen too many really good sim developers pack it in and move on to other things because of this sense of entitlement that is too often displayed by the people who consider themselves the core of the hobby.

The real core of our hobby is the people who spend countless hours actually producing these simulations. I don't think it is too much to ask to treat them with respect. Words matter.

And Neal... I LOVED Fast Attack!

Bugs and all.

JCC

Fer shizzle ;). Great post John.

PD

I agree that the sense of entitlement is a little on the overboard side sometimes. People should feel some sort of entitlement though....you are paying for a Product right?? In this age of the Internet people can and should voice what they want in a sim....Short of demanding it that is.....the only real vote you get is buying or not buying the product. I think if it is done tactfully it can be an effective tool. I'm not saying the community should strive to be a watchdog to keep companies in check, but more of a tool for companies to improve their product. Unfortunately, frustration can get the best of us....and tact goes out the window....:damn:...as most all can be guilty of that. An sure its easy for anyone to spew anything on this forum without actualy knowing what you are talking about....which, if and when the developers read the site, makes it harder for them to get good info...I would think. I dont think this is about hurting real peoples feelings...its about business and making the best product possible.

I Love how People Hear the term "A.I. Subs" and immediately think Japanese Subs....ONLY! :roll:


The addition of A.I. Subs would mean that you wouldn't be the only U.S. Sub operating in the WHOLE PACIFIC DURING THE ENTIRE WAR.....!!!

I fail to see what's so unimportant about that!!!

If this new incarnation is supposed to have an active radio message log with interactice updates, while at sea, it would make sense to have occasional reports relayed from other FRIENDLY A.I. Subs operating in enemy waters, concerning enemy ship movements.

So lets not abstract this practice in a SHIV Campaign by having imaginary friendly A.I. subs making these contacts....for it would be nice to arrive at the location and assist these subs in attacking these ships. This would split up the DD escorts and allow for an easier get away.

What about having to rendevous with a friendly sub to transfer parts/ supplies/ fuel, while at sea, "never happened" I think not??? :hmm:

Rather than having the Dev Mentioned inserting of special forces onto a beachead missions I'd rather receive an occasional emergency message to search an area for a presumed lost U.S. Sub (as was done historically). Just think how ridiculious these missions would be if you knew the game had no U.S. A.I. subs whatsoever....why would you even waste your time:rotfl:

Bottom line is, even though you wouldn't have historically run into an enemy sub very often, seeing and sinking one during your career, would be the ultimate prize and made many a Captain famous. Also, having U.S. A.I. subs would add a lot to the campaign in many more ways than I've outlined, least of all adding to the immersiveness tremendiously. :up:

i'm just greatfull that they are making these Sims. For awhile, it looked like everthing was going to game stations. Based on the amount of time I spend with the game, it is some of the best money I've spent. Of course the mods get a lot of credit for that.

I don't rally care about walking around the boat all the much. Its a nice touch but I'm there for the hunt!.

Thank you UbiSoft and the Mod Community.:up:

Because the god lord knows I can't write code.

No, in this age of the internet there's a maltorrent of nitpicking and complaining, and I believe JCC is right. There is NO entitlement that warrants that kind of behaviour, if you actually want something to change. The developer is obliged to deliver a working product. Our entitlement lies in the fact that the product we purchase works as intended. We know that games have bugs, and developers have limits. If a game does not work as we EXPECTED, but none the less works, there is no entitlement of anything.

My favourite peeve with SH3 was the 8 km Vis range. I was really bummed about that. But even if I felt I was "let down", it was just not the case. I got a sub sim, it worked, I played it. That they chose to implement a 8000 range was a decision I didn't expect. Im glad someone modded it, but I should not have spent so much time bitching about it.

Remember the grand mother advice. Would your grand mother have done it? If not, its probably for a reason. Thanks JCC, for setting things straight ^^

Bottom line is, that you are way way out in the fringes of realistic expectations of the game. These are features, however nice they would be, are something that should be modded only. It would be super swell if the devs left some "hooks" to hang community developed ai subs on, but the primary aim and purpose of a submarine was to, in solitude, to hunt enemy ships and sink them. Id love to have ai subs, but that comes way after thermal layers, better damage model, a REALLY great manual plotting and solution making experience, better sound effects, more radio activity and scripted missions, more music for the grammophone, better AI for the enemy destroyers and airplanes etc.

Opinions, opinions, opinions....and we all have them. Look, all I'm saying that if done tactfully, we look at the things from SH3 that we thought were good or bad, and voice them out now, before the product hits the stores.....after the game comes out...it is too late (especially if the game is hard to mod).