No, I thought the dolphins was funny!
It's the crap about apologizing that I was referring to

Ha! Swimsalot has been very consistent through this whole process that he wasn't accusing him of cheating, but that he wanted to advise us of a possible bug and/or unrealistic tactic being used.

My reason for saying that is I think the tone of this thread over the course of time has casted a shadow over worker, yet and still there is no proof of anything or duplication of the mechanism. MHO, lag is a sorry excuse.

It’s the principal of the matter.

Mention his name in gs, 9 out of 10 people will avoid him like the plague(or could be the aftershave instead, i dunno hehe j/k).

Last I’ve heard from a high ranking official, because of kaptian vs worker he is deemed as a cheater and is banned from all ssn dives.

I wonder what kind of message the tone of this thread sends to those unaware of kap vs worker(since vBulletin upgrade) and are now monitoring this thread?

And anyone hasn’t even been able to reproduce anything – so tell me what has changed since kaptian vs worker in the fact finding process?? Results are still inconclusive – wasn’t lag your same reason then as it is now, molon? And you are the next best person to being qualified, or anyone else couldn’t even duplicate the matter, so you chalk it up as lag? I’m sorry but that’s not good enough.

I still think this is an issue that only SCS can resolve, and with accuracy.

even swims isn’t sure of himself or conditions regarding this matter... so again.. with all these uncertainties and assumptions there is no possible way to draw an accurate conclusion.

I think the replays are very limited as its a one dimensional look at things – why not recreate the scenario with two divers and monitor the results, in this case two ‘lagless’ players.

@ molon

I fixed the helo bug.. seems to work just fine now in MP.. with all ai scripting included.

I guess the bottom line for me is this:
I have over 100 kills, have played quite a few mp games, including with Mcfester, the former king-of-lag.
I have never seen anything like this happen before or since.
Other people have had similar "curious" situations with the same player.
Irregardless of what the cause is, it is understandable that people may not want to play against someone with this type of track record.
When you look at the amount of players involved on these forums, the odds of the SAME player being mentioned in more than 1 thread are quite small. Perhaps just coincidence.
Therefore, I really can't blame people for not wanting to dive.

My time online is limited, so why would I want to waste time playing against someone that might not have the same ideals as I do about how the game is played?
I don't go out to dinner with people I don't like, I don't invite people over for a beer if I don't trust them, I feel the same way about this.
I have agreed to call it lag, a tactic, or whatever, people are free to do what they want.
I thank all for their input.

What bug?

ah yes...

in the map im making 5 player MP(LWAMI 3.02), there was a problem where player controlled ffg couldn't control ai scripted helo(which is also controllable)

edit: Helo is tasked to join up with ffg after taking off from an airbase, and help provide escort for a departing 688.

the problem was that i had waypoints assigned as tactics, and it would fly against the will of helo commands from ffg.

the solution was assigning helo tactic of sonobouy search over a wide area(OP area included and some parts in-land), but still the helo would be guided out to sea, and allowed 100% control from ffg :up:

and yes.. ill make maps that will support lwami.. ill post comment there :)

In all fairness, it isn't Swim's fault if others took an accusatory tone. He didn't.

Also, the lag in Kapitan's game was obvious, making it very likely that lag was the explanation. This game had very minor signs of lag. I can't say with any confidence that lag was the real reason; I can only say it's a reasonable explanation.

Even if no bug is being exploited here, a "shadow" on gamespy, etc. has been earned. If he was trying to use a mine as a decoy as he said he was, though not "cheating" in any real sense, is still unrealistic and qualifies as a good reason to play with someone else. I've got no more sympathy for him losing game time due to that than I do for sub drivers who use saturation attacks or airdales the lob torps from 30k feet. If you play like a douchebag, people may not want to join you next time, and that's a good thing.

I still question the mindset of someone who uses such a tactic. I also question the mindset of someone continuing to use the tactic even though he's been made a pariah because of it. I thirdly question the mindset of a person who sends an ICQ message saying "...you don't like my tactic? Tough...hehehe".

Nobody can force him not to use the tactic but then again he can't force anyone to play with him. If he enjoys playing alone...:hmm:

People like this is why I've pretty much given up playing online. My opinion.

Too bad, you're throwing the baby out with the bath water. :down:

I know...believe me I love the idea of online play...it's playing with other humans I don't like. People in general are not honest enough to play fair when they don't have to...that's the impression I got. How many games of mine were spoilt by idiots?...countless. FPS, RTS, Sims, you name it...all types of games...and some which don't appeal to kids (Aces High, for example) so it's not only immaturity to blame. Biggest heartache was Aces High...for sure. You'd be dogfighting for half an hour, classic fight...then the idiot cheats by using the warp exploit for example, when you've got the advantage. And it all went down in a big stats sheet for the month. :damn:

Look me up, I'll dive with ya any time!

And ML summed it up quite nicely.

Thanks...I might do that. :yep:

I have played games with many people from subsim, and I've never had a problem.

Agree!
Gamespy for some reason seems to be where alot of "interesting" things happen. Don't know why.
ICQ is 249-548-432 by the way, look me up for a dive guys :)

I figured out the all back thing a long time before -- actually, the true mechanism has to do with the CM programming in multiplayer. Going backwards isn't necessary at all, unless you really lacked confidence. I wrote something and sent it through my fleet when I discovered it (while trying to time how long it took for CM to expire), but I guess nobody thought it was very big or they didn't want to upset the play anymore than it already was (probably the former).

Broke the game for me. I kept playing because of the nice people, but the game itself lost a lot. It wasn't much a submarine game before that, and it was less afterwards. Fortunately, although I freely explained what I was doing and why it worked (and why some evasion tactics worked when slight variations didn't), not many people digested it and so only some basic tactics came out of it (like driving backwards).

Some random information:

I lived in China for awhile, and I'm actually involved with some cross-border research. I don't know if it bears on this, but we're doing something between Guangzhou and Texas and our pings are around 500ms. That's not great, but it's a sub game...

However, what is particularly bad between our two research centers is the packet loss. We don't have a good way to get around it, although our HK site connects to the US without problem. My guess, after looking at tracert, is that it's the Chinese backbone that is giving us trouble. We might try calling HK and connecting via dialup.

--

I haven't read Bluebook in awhile, but the SLMM tactic I remember (born in the 688 days) was to use the SLMM to blow up the incoming torps. I didn't find this method that useful, myself, since evasion was always very easy in that game, but blowing things up had other uses (like masking firing).

What did stick out about the Bluebook was that it involved tactics for a game. Some tactics were from real life that worked in the game (and some probably didn't but nobody knew for sure), but the best ones were for the game. So, in the game world, an SLMM is not metal. There is no water. The stuff on the screen in active is probably just randomly generated with a blip for real contacts (which explains why you could mark targets when you see nothing, but not mark nothing if the noise looked good). It may or may not register as a contact to torpedoes. If, in reality, an ADCAP torpedo could not differentiate between a WW2 era torpedo and a 300+ foot-long submarine, I'd say that somebody owes me a tax refund.

Anyway, it's a game, and there are different reasons to play. Playing to win, or get kills, is nice, but I would then not expect the "winning" way to play to correspond to a Tom Clancy (or even cheesier) novel.

Can we stop with the Tom Clancy bashing? :stare: He's my hero. :88)

"forum sonobuoy"
 

I have no comment here. However I have been looking for this thread for a long time so I thought an easy way to mark it was to make an irrelevant post and look it up when I want to read more. A "sonobuoy" if you will.

How about just using the search option on this forum. If everyone does this it sure is goint to clutter.

I didn't remember the threads title