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An important note. Remeber this is just a framework and soon a number different versions will be released. Jungman discovered a way to reduce efficiency in repair compartment. It is a simple question of entering 3 numbers. That alone help damage loads but I did have to tweak all the compartments and a good majority of subsystems. Now we all have to look at both the balance on damage. The fatigue system as a whole. Crew management in emergencies. I have to say that I felt a little bit more attached to each man now that I am foreced to have to pick him and pander him. I can imagine some grief if I should lose any men in campaign. have fun |
"Type=1031"
That is the main tweak to disable that compartment. Original is 1033. Anything 1031, 1030 will disable it. "Bye the way, what do i change to get the orders off the watch officer as you said earlier." That is where the random crash on exit may occur since RuB menu.ini is different. That is why it is necessary to go through and manually see what needs to be done for each install. I have the Visibility install made by Ortega/Rulle34/IuB and my custom changes. But I never changed the menu.ini from stock. Thus it is better to show you how to edit your paticular menu.ini using RuB than me giving you something I cannot see. For stock, these are the English commands for the Watch officer. One of them could cause a crash since the Watch Officer now gives the weather report instead of the Navigation Officer. The text menu.ini is different in this respect. Can you try it out for yourself, I do not get crashes with vanilla menu.ini. I did make clear TGA with the compartment names (not released), but if people are happy without it, I am surprised. At least the symbol still shows above the stations. This is from the EN_MENU.TXT note it is different from RuB because a extra weather report command added, which may lead to a crash upon complete game exit. I used these text ID number to track them down in the menu.ini. There you can disalbe them by any means necessary. As I did I used. EN_MENU.TXT ;Watch officer 2930=Choose deck gun target 2931=Torpedo attack 2932=Crew on deck 2933=Weapons management 2934=Deck Gun 2935=Flak Gun 2936=Reports 2937=Nearest ship 2938=Nearest merchant 2939=Nearest warship 2940=Recommanded target 2941=Ship identification 2942=Solution 2943=Fire torpedo 2944=Man the deck gun 2945=Man the flak gun 2946=Man the deck & flak gun 2947=Watch crew 2948=Fire at will 2949=Hold fire 2950=Fire at short range 2951=Fire at medium range 2952=Fire at long range 2953=Aim for hull 2954=Aim for command deck 2955=Aim for weapons 2956=Aim for waterline 2957=Fire at will 2958=Hold fire 2959=Short range 2960=Medium range 2961=Long range 2962=Target fighters 2963=Target bombers 2964=Target any aircraft 2965=Engage closing targets 2966=Engage any targets 2967=Contacts 2968=Nearest visual contact To get rid of Watch Officer quick command "crew on deck" search menu.ini for '=2932' string. Find this: [G3F I98] Name=&>WA Crew on deck Type=1030;Button 1032 ------> I changed from 1032 to 1030. disabled. ItemID=0x3F0A0003 ParentID=0x3F0A0000 Pos=27,-1,26,26 Materials=4 Display=0;No stretch Mat 0=data/menu/gui/layout/MainOrders.tga Crop 0=0.105469,0.210938,1,1 Mat 1=data/menu/gui/layout/MainOrders.tga Crop 1=0.105469,0.210938,1,1 Mat 2=data/menu/gui/layout/MainOrders.tga Crop 2=0.105469,0.210938,1,1 Mat 3=data/menu/gui/layout/MainOrders.tga Crop 3=0.105469,0.210938,1,1 MatFlags=0x1 TexFmt=0x9 Font=1 TextFlags=0x0 StatesColors=0xB0B0B0FF, 0xFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF ToolTipText=2932 ------>text found Changing the Type from a button 1032 to something else such as 1030 static bmp will disable it. Or maybe change it to 1031 in case of crash. These maybe different between stock menu.ini and RuB.ini. Do this for each other commands left. As for intervals, the ratios to crew numbers tend to give the break point curve for something. like minimum number for a diesel engine to operate, or how much bonus you get for 'over qualifiy' full a compartment. I guess. "You can also get rid of the now useless 6 buttons " Yes I agree, just have it reference a blanK TGA instead of Crew_Icon.tga. It will show nothing. Or maybe easier just rename the type from 1030 to 1031. That should put it out. Are you using changes to 'Intervals' in basic.cfg to change the crew effeciency in Damage Control as outlined in previous post? EDIT: I see that RUB and Stock en_MENU.TXT is the same for these five Watch officer commands. It must be gone through one at a time for RuB install in menu.ini. remember, one of these is now the 'weather report' and will maybe cause a crash upon exit. Since I do not have it installed, you must search it out and disable one at a time by above method. I am going to make a second pure install and use RuB 1.44 only and your mod (plus a few favorites such as my Dark Crew Screen F7 Mod to make it easier on the eyes for night attacks, just cosmetic). Therefore I will have you mod only and RuB; so testing will make more sense in aiding me. |
Nice one Jungman
I will consider disabling the watch commands but now that the other buttons have all been disabled I think it may just be a matter of checking if there is anyway to cheat the system coef I set out. I do not think there is really any way to cheat it as I have set the penalty fo swapping to any compartment to be higher than that cup of coffee factor i.e. the small boost. Now if i went to the bow quarters and then straight to the torp I will lose out. I am going to wait and see what the feedback is like before moving on this. I will post my disabling setting for rub tommorow, its almost midnight for me. I was starting to see the patterns in menu ini as I spent so much time trouble shooting the crashes. 1031 seemed to solve the RUB issues anyway. Do you happen to know if I can paste photos on the crew background?. I want to get some pics fom uboat.net and shrink and paste the compartment pictures where the names should have been etc. I will get rid of the six buttons and put something in their place mabe a little text with average DC sink times etc. I think it would be a good idea to inform Kaa as how to make repair crew hopeless without losing individual crew fatigue. He is working on another system that is based on a longer fatigue model i.e. weeks. Now that we have the basic framework, I can help him with his should he need any help. His model actually sounds quite good and will work with new damage thanks to your discovering intervals. On a personal note I actually like having to pander my crew on the 24 hr & during battles and the idea of having to watch them in career mode over long trips sounds like my cup of tea. It kills those minutes waiting for the DD to turn and run again. At the end of the day I now feel confident at doing a Vannilla version and a RUB version. And for those who want the damage but want to stay on Beery's fatigue model, this could also be arranged. Anyway time for bed |
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[G67 I653] Type=1030;Check box 1033 ItemID=0x6700005B ParentID=0x67000000 Pos=880,465,65,38 Color=0xFFFFFFFF Materials=1 Display=0;Linear Mat 0=DATA/Menu/Data/bow_torpedo.tga ;adds in the Bow Torpedo name tga. ;Mat 1=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga ;Mat 2=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga ;Mat 3=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga ;Mat 4=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga ;Mat 5=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga ;Mat 6=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga ;Mat 7=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga MatFlags=0x1 ;TexFmt=0x9 ;Font=5 ;Text=250 ;bow torpedo ;TextPosFlags=0x2 ;TextFlags=0x10 ;CheckBoxWidth=0 ;StatesColors=0xFF, 0xFF, 0xAA5800FF, 0xDD5800FF I just place my bow_torpedo.tga into the DATA/Menu/Data folder. I made the tga from scratch. Give me a symbol picture and I can give you one to try. ;) But they must be small, there is not alot of space above many of the comparments. |
This is odd. Should not the alble seaman be more qualified than a seaman?
[CREW_0] ;SEAMAN MoraleMin=0.30 MoraleMax=0.60 MoraleStep=0.05 FatigueMin=0 FatigueMax=0.80 FatigueStep=0.1 CoefMorale=0.4 CoefFatigue=0.1 QualEffect=1.2 ---->this higher than an Able Seaman?? Hp=10 Wounded=-0.02 Dead=-0.05 SunkShips=0.1 TorpedoHit=0.05 Experience=0 [CREW_1] ;ABLESEAMAN MoraleMin=0.30 MoraleMax=0.60 MoraleStep=0.05 FatigueMin=0 FatigueMax=0.80 FatigueStep=0.1 CoefMorale=0.4 CoefFatigue=0.1 QualEffect=1.1 ---->less than seaman rank?? Hp=11 Wounded=-0.02 Dead=-0.05 SunkShips=0.1 TorpedoHit=0.05 Experience=10 [CREW_2] ;LEADINGSEAMAN MoraleMin=0.30 MoraleMax=0.60 MoraleStep=0.05 FatigueMin=0 FatigueMax=0.80 FatigueStep=0.1 CoefMorale=0.4 CoefFatigue=0.1 QualEffect=1.1 Hp=12 Wounded=-0.02 Dead=-0.05 SunkShips=0.1 TorpedoHit=0.05 Experience=30 [CREW_3] ;PETTYOFFICER MoraleMin=0.40 MoraleMax=0.70 MoraleStep=0.05 FatigueMin=0 FatigueMax=0.80 FatigueStep=0.1 CoefMorale=0.3 CoefFatigue=0.1 QualEffect=1.2 Hp=13 -----> same except this. Wounded=-0.02 Dead=-0.05 SunkShips=0.1 TorpedoHit=0.05 Experience=50 [CREW_4] ;CHIEFPETTYOFFICER MoraleMin=0.40 MoraleMax=0.70 MoraleStep=0.05 FatigueMin=0 FatigueMax=0.80 FatigueStep=0.1 CoefMorale=0.3 CoefFatigue=0.1 QualEffect=1.2 Hp=14 ---> same except this. Wounded=-0.02 Dead=-0.05 SunkShips=0.1 TorpedoHit=0.05 Experience=100 [CREW_5] ;CHIEFBOATSWAIN MoraleMin=0.40 MoraleMax=0.70 MoraleStep=0.05 FatigueMin=0 FatigueMax=0.80 FatigueStep=0.1 CoefMorale=0.3 CoefFatigue=0.1 QualEffect=1.2 ---> should be higher with rank. Hp=15 ----> same except this. Wounded=-0.02 Dead=-0.05 SunkShips=0.1 TorpedoHit=0.05 Experience=150 [CREW_6] ;SUBLIEUTENANT MoraleMin=0.50 MoraleMax=0.80 MoraleStep=0.1 FatigueMin=0 FatigueMax=0.80 FatigueStep=0.1 CoefMorale=0.2 CoefFatigue=0.1 QualEffect=1.3 Hp=16 Wounded=-0.02 Dead=-0.05 SunkShips=0.1 TorpedoHit=0.05 Experience=200 [CREW_7] ;LIEUTENANTJR MoraleMin=0.50 MoraleMax=0.80 MoraleStep=0.1 FatigueMin=0 FatigueMax=0.80 FatigueStep=0.1 CoefMorale=0.2 CoefFatigue=0.1 QualEffect=1.4 Hp=17 Wounded=-0.02 Dead=-0.05 SunkShips=0.1 TorpedoHit=0.05 Experience=250 [CREW_8] ;LIEUTENANTSR MoraleMin=0.50 MoraleMax=0.80 MoraleStep=0.1 FatigueMin=0 FatigueMax=0.80 FatigueStep=0.1 CoefMorale=0.2 CoefFatigue=0.1 QualEffect=1.8 Hp=18 Wounded=-0.02 Dead=-0.05 SunkShips=0.1 TorpedoHit=0.05 Experience=300 Since the efficeincy is 'fixed' now, I would like to see rank play more of a part as it was in stock game for qualification. As now, only the HP goes up alittle with rank. So why ever really promote a petty officer to Chief? :-? The three intervals could correspond to these three rank steps for each class. I notice in stock game, 10 Chief Seaman in Damage Control will outdo 10 green seaman in effectiveness. The qualif=1 to 1.3 increase in rank. This should be examed. I think the progression should be put back in somewhat. |
Oooh... good catch Jungman.
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Here is how to remove the box at bottom left of screen. This is for Surface Cruise Mode I think.
[G67 I673] Type=1031;Stat bmp array ItemID=0x67000300 ParentID=0x67000000 Pos=731,247,32,32 Color=0xFFFFFFFF Materials=1 ;4 Display=2;Linear Mat 0=data\menu\data\back.tga ------> change to this. ;Crop 0=0,0,0.25,0.125 -------------> comment out. ;Mat 1=data\menu\data\crewicon.tga -------------> comment out. ;Crop 1=0.25,0,0.25,0.125-------------> comment out. ;Mat 2=data\menu\data\crewicon.tga -------------> comment out. ;Crop 2=0.5,0,0.25,0.125-------------> comment out. ;Mat 3=data\menu\data\crewicon.tga -------------> comment out. ;Crop 3=0.75,0,0.25,0.125-------------> comment out. MatFlags=0x1 TexFmt=0x5 Drag=false BmpState=0 NeedFocus=true SelOne=true IdGroup=0 StatesColors=0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF ToolTipText=423 ; Surface Attack Mode box Glad to see the Watch command orders can work as normal using this new version 2. No need to remove the WA menu commands. The penalty will be apllied if you assign "Man the Deck Gun" order. Maybe a bug. :o I notice NO decrease for moving a man into the Stern torpedo room! I think some kind of description or picture above compartments to help newbies. Plus a change to info box text to describe the reason why the hit upon entering Stern/sleep quarter, and what is with Bow quarter/Mess Hall. Names for seaman rank is in German, that may be on purpose, I'm new to full RuB. I really think the petty officers and rank should give better effeciency rating (qualif=1; 1.1; 1.2; 1.4) as was in stock game. Other than a small health increase, why ever care about better ranked seaman classes? UPDATE: Found the bug for Stern Torpedo room. :know: It should be the same as Bow Torpedo, I assume. Basic.cfg ;comp8 Stern Torpedo RegularFactor80=0.01 --------> should be 0.1 same as Bow Torp RegularFactor81=0.01 --------> should be 0.1 same as Bow Torp SpecificFactor80=0.01 SpecificFactor81=0.01 BadWeather8=0.2 Also I suggest a higher 'bad weather hit' for being in the diesel room running on the surface in bad weather. Harder to control Uboat engine due to rough waves and rocking. |
Wow! Jungman, you're doing a great job finding all of these flaws! Keep it up man! :up:
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:damn: How do you make the WO automatically go to the bridge when surfacing. Please for the love of god .
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Seriously though, maybe I can find it. it is tied to the surface/underwater state change. I think it is hardcoded. Officers are not programed to move automaticaly to fill an area. But the WA will move his arsche off the deck into the sub when diving. He goes for bow quarter first, else if filled the bow torpedo room. Gives me a clue to solve it. But then he may always stay deck even under water..... Notice the Petty Officer with a Watch qualification will move automatic first to above deck. Another clue it is tied to. |
Hi all
Thanks for picking up on those errors. I will correct from 5pm today UK time. Lets just confirm some things then! [CREW_0] ;SEAMAN MoraleMin=0.30 MoraleMax=0.60 MoraleStep=0.05 FatigueMin=0 FatigueMax=0.80 are we all happy with this (it shows how tired crew get maximum) I could play with this figure and the intervals to get quals more influential as jungman states i.e. Interval adjustments. FatigueStep=0.1 I think we can keep this as it is. CoefMorale=0.4 CoefFatigue=0.1 QualEffect=1.2 We want to make quals more influential by playing with intervals for each department. Hp=10 I should correct HP Wounded=-0.02 Are we happy with morale as shown below. Dead=-0.05 SunkShips=0.1 TorpedoHit=0.05 Experience=0 I will try and get rid of those buttons later. I would prefer a darker crew screen as jungman states. I can put explanation in compartment descriptions (It would be great if lots of text can fit in here i.e. the text box has the same scroll features.) I will correct the fatigue settings in Coef and look at more realistic sailing. I need feedback on times here guys. Remember this model is a 24 hr system. Can we all have play with damage games i.e. taunt a DD and try early subs etc.? Can someone please do a trip accross on a campaign and report conditions that you found. i.e. is the 24hrs close to mark of do more adjustments in times need to be made? Can someone play on the deck gun and anti air and report back. I would prefere the Non rub deck gun times now that we can be detered in other ways i.e. weather and energy drains. I need to find out about the floatability of the sub. Taking into account that we could have a solid 5 min leak at times. How is it working for you guys. If other modders are playing with this, have a go at tweaking and if you find something that improves, report back. Thanks all |
Here is a dark screen mod already made by me.
Dark Crew Screen Mod http://rapidshare.de/files/6053428/D...creen.rar.html I am not sure what those intervals have to do with qualifications. AFASIK playing with the crew and stock, with qualification set for 1.2 makes a green seaman just as good as a Chief petty officer. Maybe do both, I am trying increases of 1; 1.1; 1.2; 1.3. Seaman cannot get qualifications, but a higher rank seaman should do better somehow or else why waste time on their promotions? Makes them more expendable. Against the mods intention where each man cares. The stock game has a gradual increase in qualif effect through the ranks. I expect a Sr. Cheif Petty Officer to do a better job than a green Seaman. I would let him lose more fatigue before he needs to retire as you say. Maybe base his staying power on rank. This is not big changes, I just feel higher ranked officer should have more moral and more staying stamina. This is looking at it not having anything to do with repair times. The Intervals is not understood by me very well yet. Do you want to know how long a crew can man a deck gun? I notice that their endurance will drop to zero (as normal) in combat and refuse to fight. I think you mean how long they can stay on station not in combat?. I think a higher ranked crew should stay on station a bit longer. Quote:
I expect again lower rank and class to panic faster due to low morale. Older guys have seen it all and have less moral drop. I am trying to say that crew class and rank should matter more, but not over doing it. |
I took some damage from an airplane bomb. With no one in the Stern Torpedo room, it would take a full damage control team to fix 14 minutes of minor damage to torp tube 5.
Now if I place a bare minimum to fix of two seaman into the same stern room, and no Damage control team working, they could fix it in 7 minutes. Odd that the two guys in the Stern Torp station by themselves could fix it twice as fast as the whole DC team with an Officer repair skill included. :o Anyway to stop men in the compartments from doing self repairs? :hmm: Allow only the Repair team to do it? I also notice skills for petty officors such as qualified for torpedo reload has almost no more effect barely more than a regular seaman. So qualifications are pratically worthless for petty officers. :( ?? |
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Right I am back home now.
Finnished work. Jungman I will set some changes to try and get a better balance. I will post this in a in 2 hours and explain next to each change. I will set the qual effects more closer to stock game and do a quick test. I will need to play with intervals and see if there is a pattern. You too noticed that double reduction in repairs one another man enters. I think this is by the ammount of men put in a compartment as well as fatigue and qualification. It also does it in the repair station. I will look into it as I would also love only the repair crew to do repairs. Is your dark screen mod available anywhere else?. Rapidshare bloody hates me. All in all I am just spending some time setting the balances right now. p.s. can you locate the stopwatch in the menu ini. I want to try a theory that may get the stop watch on other screens. Maybe its time to establish what exactly each line in the menu ini relates to. If someone one day takes the time to post the file with text showing what relates to what, I am going to try and exploit it i.e. I am going to do a search on previous work and discoveries. Anyway I will get to work |
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I know that the crew compartments do not get repaired by the crew. I also noticed that I can put in a - figure (positive effect) to regain energy and it will stop at the top. If I put a - figure (positive effect) on other compartments the bar just grows and grows. This is the mens fatigue i am talking about. We will crack it one day :yep: Could there be anything in menu ini that can be tweaked?. Maybe in the sub cfgs I will look. What we are looking for is anything else that shows difference between the crew rest quarters and a torpedo room. There might just be a previously unexplained number present in one and not the other. |
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http://U-Boot.RealSimulation.com I cannot hot link to it, you must go there and have fun navigating it to find it, it is confusing the first time looking for something. I can e-mail it to you too, if you have an account that wil accept attached files, most will not. Making the stop watch appear on screen is not the problem, people have done it. it is just that it is not interactive functional. I got mine sitting on a desk. A Swiss made clean sweep. Maybe it is a Rolex? :smug: It is from WW II or Korean War 1950's. I like doing it the old fashion way manually just like they did without calculators. Making a new one for Dark_TDC with smaller nomograph, the one I made has the large version. I also compare the two compartments and cannot figure out what causes it to be differrent. You cannot double click on it to switch crew either. I know it has no 'progress bar' effeciency across the top. I look in Basic intervals to see anything. I notice that you can barely operate the Deck and Flak gun for a litle bit before they tire and refuse to work the station even though there is no ! above their head. So you need a fresh men up there always.This because qualifications are pratically worthless. I am looking to find to disable self repair by crew in the compartments. Only a Crisis Team. Intervals may have something to do with it. Else it is hardcoded. I hope you are correct that self repair does not occur in quarters. I thought it did as long as you have men in there. I need to check that out. [/quote] |
Have a look into this theory Jungman
[CREW_5] ;CHIEFBOATSWAIN MoraleMin=0.40 MoraleMax=0.70 MoraleStep=0.05 FatigueMin=0 FatigueMax=0.60 FatigueStep=0 Coef = Compartment effect Morale=0.3 If this is correct either the coef setting in basic = regular = morale etc or interval effects are the key. Coef = Compartment effect Fatigue=0.3 QualEffect=4 Hp=14 Wounded=-0.02 Dead=-0.05 SunkShips=0.1 TorpedoHit=0.05 Experience=200 So we have in theory Specific factor = Fatigue or in fact it could be morale. It would be fatigue Regular Factor = Morale or fatigue. Maybe thats why it seems we can get an instant penalty. Try the morale calculation for say a death and see if the maths works. Maybe thats why morale hits in lumps. The above could all be wrong though Then lets look at intervals From 2 tests I have been doing, it looks like rank has no bearing on interval settings and vice versa. I set 1, 50, and a 1000. Now rank should have shown up a difference but it never. Could it not be that those figures relate to something else i.e. the workrates or energy drain per compartment per interval. I.e. a interval being a either state of engines running, or combat. I think it may be best to test more trials in another compartment rather than repair. I am rubbish at maths thas why I posted it so a genius can suss it out or give me a lead and I investigate. I am however a problem solver and cannot get my teeth out of pet projects. I think I know what you mean about the stop watch i.e. the second hand etc is coded elsewhere. |
I think I found where the hull integrety is hidden at? :hmm:
Look inside Submarine/'subname'.zon For the type 7c, it has health points as 250, armor level 25, crash depth 346, crash speed 2. I think this is the parent number refered to by the -1 in zones.cfg. Type 2a the HP is only 150, crash depth 200, armor 15 etc. Type XXI is HP 250 armor level 28, crash depth 400... Do you know about these setting in DATA/Submarine/'subname'/'subname.zon? Intervals seem to determine a ratio so if the compartment such as a deck gun will operate or needs more men. If it is above interval _3 it gets a bonus fo somekind is a theory. Try making the Type VIIC HP to 2000 and armor 50 and your hull will have a heck of a time being destroyed?? |
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