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-   -   UK 2015 General election (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=219263)

STEED 04-17-15 01:49 PM

I have just read the Tory manifesto and I can confirm I am NOT voting for them.

Need a break after reading that.....

Next Labour

ExFishermanBob 04-18-15 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertieck476 (Post 2307397)
If the snp do very well in scotland which im sure they will, it wont be long before they push for another referendum. This is definately a danger for the uk as a whole especially if they have ed by the delicates.

Well, don't forget that the SNP (as do most Scottish politicians and UK constitutional lawyers) believe in (and respect) the idea of Scottish sovereignty, so they have the right to have a referendum (and a duty to hold one if asked or supported by a majority) but also the duty to obey the result. I suspect that the result of another referendum would still be roughly the same, although recent polls show a slight increase in a Yes outcome.

For the SNP I think that this could be a very difficult time - improving the way the UK operates might detract from support for independence but increase their own support: they could well end up in a trap, not of anyone's deliberate making, as it were. A possible salvation (from an independence outlook) would be a hostile reaction of the other UK parties to the SNP, driving public opinion against the UK, or UK opinion against Scotland - somewhat paradoxically, the Unionist supporting parties should really do their best to work with and embrace the SNP as much as possible, defusing them that way, but seeing their (the Unionists') recent incompetence and inability to take a strategic, long-term view, the current reaction of the press and the parties...well, what more can I say?

The IndyRef, this election and Holyrood's election next year, have made this a very intersting period. Holyrood, in particular, could be interesting in 2016 if all those Labour politicians lose their seats: there will be 80-odd people looking for 16 list positions in Holyrood. The back-stabbing and manoeuvering will be fascinating to watch. I would not be surprised to see a genuinely Scottish Labour party emerge, and possibly a similar Scottish Tory one (as per Mr Fraser's suggestion a few years ago) - both the current ones are "accounting units" (Electoral Commission term) of the UK parties and cannot have their own manifestos, etc., even though they 'launch' them.

STEED 04-18-15 06:03 AM

Just finished watching the opposition debate and well what can I say. The women had their claws out, Ed was weak and Nigel had a pop at the audience. More life in that debate but the dark side came out to play in the women.

STEED 04-18-15 06:10 AM

Nigel enters the den again on the BBC with a special show and the three leaders will be on question time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32360958

ExFishermanBob 04-18-15 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 2307308)

As it stands, I must admit, my voting choice has wavered a bit from Labour towards Green...I'm going to have to do some soul searching about Trident I think... :hmmm:

It took me a while to change my mind about Trident - it was a military chap who did it for me in the end, pointing out that the money could be better spent elsewhere (on other, usable, military equipment, rather than Trident). I found that argument more persuasive than any anti-nuke feelings. I stongly suspect that battlefield nukes are a far better deterrent than Trident or no nukes at all: however, that's just a gut feeling. Before anyone flares up about that, I said "deterrent". :D

ExFishermanBob 04-18-15 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED (Post 2307613)
Just finished watching the opposition debate and well what can I say. The women had their claws out, Ed was weak and Nigel had a pop at the audience. More life in that debate but the dark side came out to play in the women.

I don't watch the debates, but I take a great interest in the reactions to them and try to see if that tells me anything at all. At least in this election, the smaller parties being seen and heard. What is disgraceful is the lack of representation from Northern Ireland: it's either the UK or it's not, surely? Also, where were the Co-Operative party? There are 32 of them in Westminster, including Ed Balls.

Jimbuna 04-18-15 07:22 AM

19 days to go

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown...p0=0&year=2015

STEED 04-18-15 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2307633)

This one is better.
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown...he+world&csz=1

STEED 04-18-15 09:20 AM

Just had Labour come around bashing the hell out of my door! :hulk:

Asking me am I voting, too which I asked what today?

Not the right way to get my vote. :arrgh!:

STEED 04-18-15 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExFishermanBob (Post 2307619)
I don't watch the debates, but I take a great interest in the reactions to them and try to see if that tells me anything at all. At least in this election, the smaller parties being seen and heard. What is disgraceful is the lack of representation from Northern Ireland: it's either the UK or it's not, surely?

I see no issue with that but..

2010 general election results Northern Ireland
DUP 8 seats
SF 5 seats
SDLP 3 seats
Alliance 1 seat
Others 1 seat
UUP 0 seats

I think the elephant in the room would be Sinn Fein and probably would be regarded as more of a issue than UKIP. I maybe wrong but who can tell.

MGR1 04-18-15 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExFishermanBob (Post 2307612)
.....the current reaction of the press and the parties...well, what more can I say?

Best recruiting tool the SNP has ever had.:/\\!!

Now that the political dynamic has changed after the referendum, it's interesting to see all the bubbling resentment in England come to a head. It doesn't speak well for the Union if a majority of the people of England now just view Scotland, and a lesser extent Wales and Northern Ireland, as an expensive burden. A mere expense, rather than equal partners in the Union. The Barnett formula's got a lot to with it, but New Labour's asymmetrical devolution settlement hasn't helped in the least. EVEL is just a sticky plaster solution, England needs to have it's own parliament and it baffles me as to why it currently seem so hostile to the whole concept?

Mike.

mapuc 04-18-15 02:16 PM

As said before interesting thread. It will be even more interesting after the election-see your reaction.

Markus

ExFishermanBob 04-18-15 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGR1 (Post 2307718)
Best recruiting tool the SNP has ever had.:/\\!!

Now that the political dynamic has changed after the referendum, it's interesting to see all the bubbling resentment in England come to a head. It doesn't speak well for the Union if a majority of the people of England now just view Scotland, and a lesser extent Wales and Northern Ireland, as an expensive burden. A mere expense, rather than equal partners in the Union. The Barnett formula's got a lot to with it, but New Labour's asymmetrical devolution settlement hasn't helped in the least. EVEL is just a sticky plaster solution, England needs to have it's own parliament and it baffles me as to why it currently seem so hostile to the whole concept?

Mike.

Well, the problem is the Treaty of Union - the English Act states that the English parliament was to be dissolved and Westminster was to pop into existence. Varying the Treaty would require the agreement of the other party to it, namely, the political entity known as the Scots. I don't think that would be a problem, but Westminster would have to admit the supremacy of the Claim of Right (1989 and 1689) and Arbroath (1320), of course. They really don't want to do that I suspect, which is leading to all the nonsense about EVEL and the like. Most people don't really understand the nature of the Union and the Treaty - if you do, much becomes clearer (for instance, the result of the indyref didn't really matter - the definition of who could vote in it, and hence the definition of 'Scot', in 2012, was the really important thing).

You'll notice that UKIP have moved from demanding an English parliament to wanting EVEL, no doubt once they realised the problem.

I meant to add - the bigoted views expressed by some English commentators are, I hope and feel (being English), in the minority: mind you, I've lived in Scotland for so long now that I no longer know what is happening in England. I suspect that they are suffering from not having discussed anything constitutional for a long time - we've had a few years of it, but they are just starting.

Jimbuna 04-19-15 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED (Post 2307655)

'End of the world' eh? :hmmm:

You must know something about the result in advance :)

ExFishermanBob 04-19-15 09:18 AM

Heh:haha:

STEED 04-19-15 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2307829)
'End of the world' eh? :hmmm:

You must know something about the result in advance :)

ME?...Your not suggesting the election is rigged are you jim? :hmmm: :03:

STEED 04-19-15 11:01 AM

BBC Poll of Polls April 19th
Conservatives 34
Labour 34
Ukip 14
Lib Dem 8
Green 5
Others 5
No Change to any party

STEED 04-19-15 11:08 AM

UKIP is in big trouble and set only to win one seat.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10187516.html

So why the fear of UKIP? :hmmm:

The trouble is, is a expert a expert? :hmmm:

MGR1 04-19-15 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExFishermanBob (Post 2307732)
.......but Westminster would have to admit the supremacy of the Claim of Right (1989 and 1689) and Arbroath (1320), of course.

Ah, of course.

"The People are Sovereign" vs "Parliament is Sovereign". I can see why that would be a problem for Westminster. It's a direct challenge to it's authority. The current UK Constitution isn't set up to handle the concept of American style popular sovereignty.

Mike.

STEED 04-20-15 07:03 AM

This is a real disgrace and I hope who ever forms the next government sorts this out and I mean sort it out and not put on the back burner.

Quote:

Anger at £35m NHS chief pay rises
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nhs-chiefs...mt_s=m#6g8gPz3


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