There is no best home defense weapon. There is layers of safety/security before a weapon is needed. Start with stickers on the window stating the house has an alarm system. The sticker alone does make many would be intruders move on to easier ground. I just purchased a security system that has 32 zones of coverage. Detects movement of anything 25 pounds or heavier. All windows will be wired. The systems phones 5 different numbers if the alarm is set off. It has two 125 decibel alarms with flashing blue/red lights. The family dog is also a layer of security. Our poodle hears everything. Including the squirrels farting just outside the window.

Anyway, your AR. Go for the head shot. Miss. Then what? Multiple intruders? I would prefer multiple balls of lead flying at them than one bullet. :D You are correct, there is a tool for every job. One hopes that the tools would never have to be employed. To do that, create the layer of security. Ogres have layers.

Go for the headshot? Really?
Put a couple center mass and don't go for showy crap.

Make my day punk!

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps98923ef0.jpg

9 of 10 people would be shaking so badly the center mass shot would be iffy at best. Head shots are for the movies. Shotgun...point in general direction. Good chance of scoring a hit.

But I will say one thing...the noise of a pump shotgun chambering a round is a sound many people know and understand as not a good thing if on the receiving end. Might be all it takes for the intruder to leave.

Sometimes all it takes is a potential intruder to step in the pile of dog crap out back to make him think about his next move. :03: Not to mention the smell gives him away plus the dog crap tracks left behind. :haha:

If a person is shaking so badly that they can not make reliable center mass shots when a person has unlawfully and with hostile intent entered their living space, then they should not be in possession of firearms.
Also you seem to overestimate the spread of shot at those ranges nor would I count on intimidation alone, an empty thread is meaningless.

When a person get a firearm for home defense they need to be able to use it with a high degree of proficency, lest it become criminal incompetence.

Whether said person shakes or not in that situation has no bearing on gun ownership. 2nd Amendment.

I overestimate nothing. You simply have a better chance of a hit with a shotgun than a single bullet. Go ahead, pull the string on the clay duck thrower. Unless your are truly a sharp shoot as seen on tv you will not hit the clay duck with a single bullet. A shotgun will provide the best chance.

A high degree if proficiency is not required to own a weapon. 2nd Amendment. Everyone is libel for criminal incompetence. Gun, car, pool unattended...the list goes on

You're not being realistic. One can have all the training possible, but they can't put themselves in an emotional fearful gunfight. The fact is most cops with training get nervous and shake in a gunfight and often miss. It only takes only a minor movement, that's why for many a shotgun is the best weapon to use, each must decide.

Remember the LA riots, the looters.. The stores that didn't get looted or robbed were those owners that armed themselves to the hilt.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...ail&FORM=VIRE7

I find myself questioning the assumption we all make that tyranny cannot happen here. I think as long as politics of fear are at work, there is a chance. I think ever since 911 we have been in a steady slide towards planting the seeds from which tyranny may someday grow from.

This video makes a good point.
Fear and Oath-ing in DC

Nope! Not just because only cops would have guns, but because by the time the cops show up, the crime has already occured. They cannot defend you. They show up to make a report, and investigate what has already happened. Too late to be of any aid to you.

Don't fall into the false belief that, "it can't happen to me". Don't get me wrong, im not say be paranoid, but in day to day life, there are A LOT of "special people." I call them special because the way they drive, or their outlook on what may or may not happen to them in general, they must be special because they have no thought that something bad may happen to them. Be it a car accident, or home invasion. And when something bad does happen, whats the first thing they say? "I can't believe this is happening!". (I used to be a special person. :haha: )


The second amendment is what helps insure the rest. It is a cornerstone of our civil rights, and our freedom. Remove it, and you remove a foundation upon which our civil rights rest upon.
Another good point raised here:
You Can't Ban Evil

Everything he says is silly, or just blatant trolling. Made my ignore list ages ago because all he does is try to antagonize, and make a mockery of whatever it is you may have to say. So the way I see it, there isn't ANYTHING he has to say that is worth reading. All he does is troll for an emotional response.

Sorry AVG, i gotta stop ya there. A shotgun is not project a wall of death down a hallway. Yeah i know im embellishing a little there, but a shot pattern holds together a lot more then people think. It varies on what size of shot your using, length of barrel, size of chock, even brand of ammunition being used. For home defense, the best load in my opinion is 00 buckshot. That load effectively contains nine .32 caliber bullets. You hit someone with that, they are not getting back up. However, it still requires aiming. You still have to shoulder the weapon, find your sight picture, put the front sight bead on the target, and squeeze the trigger.

For grins and giggles, take a shotgun that can fire 00 buck to your an indoor shooting range with 3 or 4 body silhouette targets. Shoot a 00 buckshot load at varing ranges and you'll see how the pattern works. Even at a range of 15 yards, a pattern can hold together fairly well. Statics have shown most indoor engagements occur at 7 yards or less, where a shotgun pattern is the tightest. In other words, yes, you can miss with a shotgun. Hell, ive seen it happen on the range when my wife was first learning to shoot. "Congradulations honey, you missed him, with a shotgun!" Believe you me, she has come a long way since then. I've already learned she shoots best when its that time of the month - no fooling. Avenging valkarie and all that. Don't mess with PMS! :haha:

But can she handle the recoil of a shotgun? My wife can't. For all practical purposes, the best gun to use for home defense is the one where you can get rounds on target with. If you can't hit what your aiming it, then it is of no use to you.

The best thing to do, if kids are involved, is try and round them up and get your family together in one room. Probably the master bedroom. Or tell your kids beforehand, that if someone breaks into the house, go to mommy and daddys room RIGHT AWAY. Hole up in the one room, STAY PUT, take cover behind the bed, stay away from the doorway, and train your gun on that opening, and blast anything that comes through it. It essentially becomes a funnel of death, and anyone looking to get to your family has to go through it. Meanwhile your wife or child calls 911, while you keep your gun pointed at that doorway. Oh and did i mention to STAY PUT? Don't try and clear the house. Especially if the cops are on the way. Once they get there, they won't be able to tell you from the bad guy. A man with a gun is a man with a gun in their eyes. Stay on the line with 911 so you know when the cops get there, and to let the police know where your at.

I think it any state, you are responsible for every single round that leave the barrel of your gun. I prefer hollow point bullets for this reason. Hollow points do two things.
a.) Maximize wound channel damage to the bad guy.
b.) loose momentum and velocity upon the first wall they hit. A stray hollow point will be lucky to make it through the first wall it comes in contact with, and definately will not make it through a second wall.

Not neccessarily for reasons ive already mentioned above.

Never, EVER, EVER, give up your gun. For ANY reason. The instant you give up your gun, you give up any advantage and leverage you have, and entrust your life, and the life of your entire family to a criminal in your home. Think about this now, this criminal has most likely done time in prison. He could be a rapist, and a murderer. He is one big unknown criminal element in your home, capable of ANYTHING. Do you trust your life and the life of your entire family to someone like this? No. NEVER. Never ever ever ever ever give up the gun.


Possibly, it depends on what kind of 22 cal bullet we are talking about. Technically speaking, the much talked about AR-15 shoots a 22 caliber bullet. Yeah, that will definatlely go through. A 22 rimfire hollow point? Not so much.

Insert standard "living in ivory tower" and "Utopian ideals" comments here. On a side note, Im currently kind of stuck here in a hotel room in vegas, with nothing to do but watch TV or post on a message board. (this place is bloody expensive, the simple act of eating food is ludicriously expensive), anyway, was watching Demolition man yesterday, and it occurs to me, the "San Angeles" portrayed in that movie, is probably the progressive wet dream about a utopia.


I think it's about politics, and control.

I think that people of the far left in persuasion, are simply scared, and full of angst for things they do not understand out of ignorance. Watch this debate carefully:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo9BbB6rBx0

The show host i think, is a fine example of your typical anti-gun person in his beleifs, his knowledge, and level of ignorance.


Yeah go figure that one out. Disarmed , or poorly armed people make for easier targets? Nahhhhh...... Never.

Agreed. Center of mass. Which also happens to be the heart/lung area on a human being. The heart is not off to the left in the chest like many people may think. Its in the center of your chest. You shoot center of mass until the threat stops being a threat.

Shotguns ive already covered. Center of mass is your largest target area, and greatest hit probability. The fact that people under duress WILL miss is a great argument against a ban of "hi-capacity magazines". In terms of defending your family, each round is a potential life saver.

One can hope. I wouldn't leave anything to providence or chance.

Under stress, even police miss. Its not just shaking, but rushing your shots because your in a panic. One thing that a lot of people don't do, but should do, is spend more time on the range. Under stress, you revert to muscle memory. Muscle memory is instilled by training. It takes 1000 repetitions of something before it becomes muscle memory.


In terms of handguns vs long guns, a long gun will always be more accurate. This isn't about shotgun's it's about sight radius. That is the distance between your rear and front sight. The longer it is, the more accurate that firearm will be. Even between handguns, a handgun with a longer sight radius will inheirantly be more accurate. For example, my M9A1 (handgun) , is slightly more accurate then my wifes PX4 storm compact (smaller handgun) because it has a longer barrel and hence longer sight radius. (by about 1 an inch or so i think).

I think you referring to the Korean shop owners.
http://www.humanevents.com/wp-conten...2/58852252.jpg
Your right, their shops didn't get razed and looted.

I remember reading an FBI report in a shooting magazine that said that an experienced civilian shooter, in a life and death situation will most likely miss a moving target at 7 feet and a stationary target at 7 yards.

Shooting paper on a range does not simulate a real life shooting situation. :yep:

Of course, I am different. If I were in that situation, I would just shoot the gun out of the baddies hand like the lone ranger used to. :D

Ducimus:
We still take our precautions. Sleeping with the frobt door unlocked and key in the ignition is left to folks in Mayberry. As I posted a few back, a home security system is going in our new home. We are aware but not overly nuts about it. Frightens the kids if one gets crazy about it. May never leave the house. I do know the shootings does unsettle my 14 year old. Need to find a balance of safety and security for all under the roof.

Sure, I understand the shotgun does not spread a wall of death however it does provide more projectiles going in the same direction instead of one projectile. I understand the length of barrel as well will affect the pattern. This is why post about the riot shotgun as you can see. 18 inch barrel. Easier to use in a home setting. Also noted, the noise of the pump action on the weapon is a noise many recognize and know what the potential outcome could be. I would say that noise is enough to be a game changer for the intruder.

At first I would say she would not. She wants to go to the range and will for the experience. I think she do well. Truth be told, first time I messed with my 870 Express shotgun I came home with a bruised shoulder. :shifty:

True, but everyone handles a stressful situation differently. Fight or flight as it were. I understand the center of mass. I would rather shoot a bus and not a Fiat. Unfortunately everyone thinks they are Dirty Harry and a head shot is in the cards. :88)

Another factor to consider is recoil. A .12ga kicks a heckuva lot more than a .223 therefore the latter is a lot easier aim a second shot if one becomes necessary. Shotguns are the original "spray and pray" weapon.

The biggest weakness with a shotgun as home defense, is it's overall length. A long rifle or shotgun makes it easier to wrestle away from you. Along with an 18 " barrel, id recommend using a shorter length of pull stock to lessen the overall length of the shotgun and make it a bit more manueverable indoors. (video on that here. I don't agree with everything he says, but he makes some decent points. )

- If shotgun is a Remington, I'd get an M4 styled stock similar to this one.
http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Spe...k,1157,165.htm

- If shotgun is a mossberg, id get a Hogue overmolded short length of pull stock similar to this one.
http://www.hoguestore.com/index.php?...oducts_id=4615

Whatever you do, don't get a pistol grip with no shoulder stock. Those things are about as hollywood as headshots.

Ahh, so you do have a remington. Here's an idea for handling recoil if you don't mind spending some money.

Knoxx recoil reducing stock.

I'd look that up on youtube for some product reviews. Not all are glowing.

I did have a 870 Express. As well as a Marlin 30/30 with scope and a Browning 380. I sold them well over 20 years ago. My wife expressed that she would like a weapon because the bad guys have one. Actually I was surprised. Anyhoo...I have no issue with it and time will be spent learning to use it and safety. I did enjoy skeet shooting. I'm betting she would also. I used to reload shells. Saved a few bucks doing so. I have been looking.

Not that idiot again:doh:

He matches the level of ignorance of your above pro gun commentator.
Neither one is really that typical but both are idiots.

wow even a CAPSLOCK:har::har::har::har::har::har:
errrrr ....that was the episode of your "people who have not been in the military cannot know simple things" nonsense where your claim about special forces was easily proven to be totally false.:yeah:
The thing in this topic and nearly every other gun topic which is "silly"is the people refering to the threat of a non existant "total gun ban".

So will a cop, or a soldier.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/o...Znt4GWaaGWJBfN

The pistol packing mama is plainly a muppet, she is holding the baby in the wrong arm to be ready for selfdefence.:rotfl2:

She is a quick draw! :haha:

She's also holding that baby with the wrong arm if she wants to be a quick draw.