says who?:hmm2:
we'll see that in two years :D
when i help deciding on how the public will keep or not keep funding religions.

Cut their money, cut their position ;)

Maybe in your,... is it a real full fledged country or a Some kind of independent Dutchy that you live in? Anyways that'll be the day when a Luxembourger decides how anyone outside of Luxembourg will treat their religions.

You'll never be "The Mouse That Roared"... :)

you failed at Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg

• Luxembourg's independence was reaffirmed by the 1839 First Treaty of London
• it is headed by a grand duke and is the world's only remaining grand duchy
• Luxembourg is one of the world's most developed countries, with an advanced economy and the world's highest GDP (PPP) per capita, according to the World Bank.
• Luxembourg is a secular state,

What do you expect me to answer?
I know - you do not expect an answer per se. [say] all you want is to poke a stick at me.

I am Christian enough to forgive you that.
and the reason is not to pile up riches in heaven, but because i pity you.

Which leads me to an other interesting article on Wiki, about my own small country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Luxembourg

Since 1979 it has been illegal for the government to collect statistics on religious beliefs or practices.[5] It is estimated by the CIA Factbook that 87% of Luxembourgers are Roman Catholics, the remaining 13% being made up of Protestants, Muslims, Eastern Orthodox Christians and Jews those of other or no religion.[6]
According to the most recent Eurobarometer Poll 2005,[2]

• 44% of Luxembourgish citizens responded that "they believe there is a God".
• 28% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force".
• 22% answered that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, God, or life force".

To sum it up:
35 years ago, the CIA reconed we were almost all catholics.
a quick check shows that this has las been updated in 2000, and still has not been changed.

2005 less than half the people said there must be a god,
less than a third knew there must be something, but no real clue what, and the rest had dropped the subject altogether.

Good.:yeah:

As a conclusion:
The information that the CIA presents on the CIA factbook is not accurate.
The two letters B and S come to mind.

As an addition:
It is difficult to underatsnd or grasp a country that one is not living in, only by information in books and the net.

That is probably one of the best replies in a long time.

To get back to the original Subject, i propose the followingh article:
http://www.katholisch.de/de/katholis...reaktionen.php

While the Clergii and the catholic hierarchy are all wound up about the end of the cooperation, and are mad at mister pfeiffer because that guy said the Church wants to censure stuff... they are manoevering to keep their faces.
They tried to shut mister Pfeiffer up, and he refuses to play the game.
Now the Church sends the Lawyers, and the whole subject shifts towards a small bickering:
"small independent researcher verusus the church and its reputation"
--> bad.

While at the same time a jesuit says that the Victims of the abuse as well as the churches' actions and reactions must be the center of the topic at hand.
--> GOOD!
The central Commitee of the german Catholics says, there is not smokescreens being laid over cases of abuse by the catholic church.
the church is transparent, and will keeb being transparent.

--> are you kidding me? The church has been one of the most un-transparent institutions ever... transparency is not beneficial to them, on any level of their activities.
Mysterium of God and life, believing rather than knowing is their forté. Transparency and clear knowledge by facts and tests... isn't.



=========================================

Article:
we are having some issues, but will remain on topic.
we will continue our covering up of abuse (of many kinds) and will report to the the state law and the public on that.

meh: B.S. propaganda a la Goebbels.

That organisation is an alliance by church representatives of the dioceses and Catholic-run offices and institutions.

It is not to be mistaken with the - far greater and far more representative for the believers' community - Catholic Laymen Organisation, where ordinary people not holding official posts in the hierarchy have gathered and organised themselves, and which on many issues is in opposition to official church doctrine. This is not just some hobby debating club of some wannabe-VIPs. They run their own social infrastructure and their own social institutions. Beside this organisation, there are several other comparable ones run and maintained by church laymen.

So far the church could afford to simply ignore any opposition by such organisations, since they use to shy away from seriously challenging the church's self-claimed authority when the going threatens to get tougher.

I am having a hard time understanding the legal process in this case. If a crime has been committed and a complaint has been made, why does the German legal system need the separate or internal investigation of any organization (KFN), in order to proceed with it's duty to bring the criminals to justice.

I find it hard to understand why the police cannot issue a subpoena and examine these personal records. Am I missing something?

Yeah like I care what you forgive or pity. :roll:

Church law in parts overrules state law, not only in Germany, btw. One of the exceptional privileges that secular critics like me are so outraged about. Others are legalised tax evasion, diplomatic status, to name just the most obvious.

If I would do like the church legally can do, I would rot in jail.

Not to mention the openly criminal activities by the church. If you want I can give you a small list with German books by prominent church critics who after having analysed the suspect have left n othing of him than shreddered pieces. It is organised crime, plain and simple.

Gustav I think your slapdown really hit the troll hard and he didn't like it

"Yeah like I care what you forgive or pity."

^^
Notice the rolling eyes emoticon.

You know it hurts him even more as it was a foriegner who showed him up:har:

But I like how someone with a big local pervert problem is trying to run down someone from a little country which can in fact impact on the problem MA faces with its clerical nonces.

I fail to see how the word "foreigner" is so relevant on an international Internet forum.

Really? I'm no expert but I believe that in most western nations civil law trumps Canon law every time. If this is not the case in Germany then you do have a problem.

Again I ask the question..if a crime has been committed what exactly is preventing the justice system, police and courts, from pursuing a case?

And why do they need an independent study to proceed?

Agreed, not much different than the mafia. When I see one of the big "whatevers" at the Vatican, the millions spent on outfits, men acting so holy, makes me sick. They recently excommunicated a woman for speaking out for wanting women priest, while the Vatican continues to simply move child abusers to other areas where they can continue raping kids.

The cases at hand are past the statue of limitations IIRC. That's why the police can't do much about it.

It wouldn't be , unless of course someone has a problem with foriegners.

But his attempt really fails when his local top nonce protectors are part of an international order and both recent holders of that position hold posts in places which come directly under the jurisdiction of legal institutions in that pesky little country he was trying to run down.
Whoda thunk any lowly Luxembourger could ever have any say in what the clergy of Massachusetts can be doing eh:rotfl2:

I understand. Have there been any recent cases of abuse that are not covered by the statue of limitations and have any of these cases been hindered by the church from being prosecuted?

Eh! with all due respect!
IIRC, Neal is American.
Therefor the Subsim is american turf, because this is , sort of, Neal's backyard we are playing in. Right?
I am a foreigner, and that is all right. :)

and no, i didnt mean to slap anyone. that's not what i am here for.
i am here cause i want the Church to come forth and say what they did. and then for them to pay the price for their actions.
and then be dismatled, in a similar fashion that states are trying to dismantle drug cartels.

Because some Religions, in an organized Form... is a Drug.
In my book at least.