I'm sorry, but this is just getting silly. Do people really believe that one picture in a game is going to incite mass NAZIism? I fully agree that lessons must be learnt from the past, that's exactly why during my education I clearly remember being shown NAZI propaganda images and videos of parades and the like, and then talking about and analyzing them. Funnily enough, over 15 years later and none of my old school friends have since gone and joined a neo-nazi group, or started rounding up and killing jews!

You don't stop history from repeating itself by covering up every bad image from the past with a lovely little photo of some cute puppies dancing under a rainbow in a cloud of fairy dust!

Right... agree 100%...we were saying the same thing, but in a different way. Doenitz "says" he had NO knowledge of "the final solution" until he saw an article in the Stars and Stripes the day he surrendered and was arrested. Is that true....only he knows.

I do know that the US Navy leadership does not know EVERYTHING the US Army leadership has in works at the Pentagon. So it is possible the KM did not know.... although I find that hard to believe.

Good post.....

I myself spent 6 years in Germany (back in the early 90's) and one area that Germany woke up to was you had to teach about Hitler and what happened during WWII. Its not the swastika that makes evil (after all isnt it a Hindu religous symbol that Hitler bastardized). Its ignorance.....

All my German friends (two of which were in the army) that were my age (40 now) were keenly aware of what happened.

Not a single one then golrified nazism...and actually were quite fearful that something could happen like that again. Especially as the Berlin Wall fell and East Germans and Polish were coming over to West Germany...and a lot of resentment built up, and with that feelings of hatred. To the point where we walked by an appartment used to house impovrished Polish people, and there was a swastika on the wall and "Polen Raus!" painted underneath. My friends were more than disgusted by this....

Like you stated ...its all about reality and fiction. Saying that the closing image from the game is horrible and evil and should be removed because it may make some young person a nazi, is like saying the Discovery channel/History/Military channel should never play "World At War" or some other documentary because it shows Nazi's.

While I was in Germany I took a tour of Dachau.... the worst tour I have ever been on. I took LOTS of pictures....and as my children have grown up I have made SURE to show them the pictures (when they were old enough) just so the could SEE the evil men are capable of and to question what leaders say and not blindly follow. I also showed them pictures of the coloseum in Nuremburg that was supposed to last 1,000 years (the time Hitler said his empire would last).... not because I wanted to glorify Hitler...but because it was history.

I honestly expected a scripted final mission with a thinly veiled copy of the Das Boot ending, only your boat doesn't get off under-sea rock shelf.
The End.

Excellent post:up:

Just because I've now seen the end screen (containing a U Boat , 3 flags and an eagle) I will not be running out and voting BNP , nor will I start reading the Daily Mail or watch the fox network (well maybe Fox now and again)

The whole point is that these issues are subjective. What one person sees in something is not the same as another. If you don't like it - don't do it, But don't tell me I can't do it or we will fall out!

I'm sorry - you may see it as Nazi Glorification, I don't. All I see is an ending screen in a game. I see a U Boat , 3 flags and an eagle. It does not make me want to join a neo nazi party - nor does it make me want to persecute minorities. If it offends you then mod it out using Kylania's mod. But don't presume to tell me how it affects me.

THIS.

I swear, some people must be incredibly blind, or totally ignorant of propaganda, or what message can be conveyed through the proper use of artistic rendering. If anyone else here can remember back to the arts and humanities lectures you had to suffer through in college.......

First, lets uncensor the end screen shall we?
(Excuse the quick edit in MSPaint)
http://www.ducimus.net/sh5/unedited.jpg

And here is an evaluation of this composition.

1.) There is great emphasis on the flags, occupying the back ground, and center stage. Not one flag, but THREE of them. Adding more emphasis to the symbology.

2.) The reich eagle in the foreground. It can only be the reich eagle, and it is symbology that is occuping the fore ground.

3.) The uboat, in the middle, is being wrapped in the above symbology. Keep in mind that symbols are representive of an idea, or ideaology. The uboat, is in effect, being blanketed in the symbols of the ideology of the 3rd reich. This is called propaganda. Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. This is political in nature

4.) The context of the message smacks of negationism. Together, in conjunction with all of the symbolism, it is depicting the 3rd reich in a favorable light.

5.) The composition, and theme of the overall picture is a carbon copy of Nazi propaganda posters.

6.) The flowery rose petals shower, indicating heroic" and triumphant over the existing symbolism. I would say, this is to infer that the 3rd reich is valient, heroic, and victorious.

Here are some other posters that infer similar themes.
http://www.ducimus.net/sh5/prop1.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh5/prop2.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh5/prop3.jpg
(this one should look familiar)
http://www.ducimus.net/sh5/prop4.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh5/prop5.jpg


Now, things like the swaztika should be displayed... in historical context. To do otherwise is to whitewash history. But it should be displayed nothing more then the flag that happened to be flying at the time. But there is a line between historical depiction, and glorification, and the end game screen crosses that line in its artistic composition, excessive use of symbolism, and inference of a valiant and heroic 3rd reich at sea.

Under no circumstances should the 3rd reich, in any manner, be displayed in a favorable light. Individual heroism certainly, but not collectively as a whole as that one end game screen does.

Considering it is part of an official release, it can be construed as an endorsement of the ideolgy behind the symbology considering how it is being depicted and displayed. I cannot fathom how some people cannot understand that.

Please stop talking down to people who don't agree with you, thinking they don't understand. We all understand that the game image looks just like propaganda posters of the day. It's suppose to look like one.

Now the only question is: Is Ubisoft promoting Nazims by depicting a 40's German propaganda poster in a sim where you play a 40's German U-boat captain?

I say of course not. Anybody who makes that leap between fiction and reality needs to get his head checked. Video games is the least of his problems.
I agree with a previous poster, this is getting more than ridiculous.

http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/649...e74bafdbc1.jpg

This picture is far from any nazi propaganda or glorification. Germany has lost both WW's, even those of the 19th century, so I can't see how it could be glorified. This picture is just a poor cartoonesque imitation of the propaganda style shown in Ducimus last post. It has no text, no soul, a bad composition, ugly colours, and is far from Leny Riefensthal's work. Kylania's replacement picture is good but reminds me more of a trawler arriving at port after a fishing campain.
The videos of the old proud U-Boot captains are much more indecent. Plus I think those who focus on the nazi carnage should have a look on what's happening everywhere nowaday.

While I understand there are two points of view here, both of which are polarised and quite clearly without reconciliation. I really object to be told what to think. The points of view which think that the image is just part of a game and does not in anyway incite people to the rallying cry of fascism have been measured and have just clearly stated their opinion. Whereas, the "anti-screenshot" opinions seem to be quite condescending; although they make their point eloquently and quite persuasively, they seem to seek to prove others wrong rather than make their point of view and let others decide.

I have never lived under a totalitarian regime, thankfully, I have lived a free life. But the only reason I have been able to do that is because both of my Grandfathers were killed fighting for that right. One died on the Burma railway, the other was a Czech pilot. Both died to give me the right to form my own opinion. I also have an honours degree in history so I find it a little irritating that people think my opinion is one of ignorance

Opinions will vary, but I think Ducimus is 100% right on this one. It's another "what were they thinking" moment. The problem is that it's presenting a heroic image of Nazi Germany without any context. It's either profoundly stupid or profoundly sly. I suspect they were just stupid.

Cheers,

RD.

:up:+1

How can it be without context?? The very next screen shows a sub dead and broken on the sea bed?? I can't think of a better context

I would say the same of the quite a number of people that are so enamored with a fictional romance, that myth is accepted as fact, and anything that even remotely tarnish's the fantasy is outright rejected.

Why do you feel it's without any context? The picture is the "victory" splash scene of a WWII U-boat simulation game. You only see it if you "win the game". It's entirely in context within that situation.

I'm starting to get the urge to look for my popcorn stash FFS!!!!!! :nope:

I'm done arguing. The more i talk about this subject, the more pissed off i get. A few people can understand why that one end game pic is way out of line . Others can't. Whatever, in the end, this place is still fantasy land.

You have your own opinion. It DOES NOT make it right and I fully understand your point of view and I fully understand mine and many others but understanding and agreeing are two very different things.

Why is your opinion more valid than mine and why because it is your opinion does it make it correct??

To the layman it looks fairly close to the original in terms of style, colour and composition, but the Nazi propoganda posters don't look that familiar to me, so I woudn't notice the smaller details. There are differences on the eagle, but it's pretty similar.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the videos being more indecent?