SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - What does elenaiba say...

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- Silent Hunter 5 (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=244)

- - What does elenaiba say... (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163099)

I wish I could have an opinion one way or the other, but I still await my preorder arrival while constantly fighting the urge to check it out by distasteful means. It creates a lot of frustration to know crooks are playing it days before my copy I paid for a month ago is still en-route. Something in the way this works is seriously broken. From the looks of it I may not get my copy until next week. :x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x:x:damn::damn::damn::damn::damn: :damn:

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanaiba (Post 1292441)

2) Please stop trying to create a war / antagonism between modders and devs, we need each other.

Quoted for emphasis. Working on/bulding a supermod for SH4 only increased my understanding and appreciation for the developers and what they go through. I may talk bluntly about some things, but i have *always* been on their side (the devs). I have no hesitation in saying that Dan is probably this communities best friend, both end user and modder alike. He has made himself approachable by modders and has even offered his hat into the ring a couple times in brainstorming.

So every time someone says something like this, all your doing is driving a wedge between modder and developer, and between modders themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanaiba (Post 1292441)

1) Ubisoft is a company, of which Ubisoft Romania is a part. Please stop separating the two. Not everything that is good is our merit, not everything that is bad is "the suits" fault. I, of all people, have my parts in the failures of SH5. The people "high up" could have simply decided not to do another SH, just as you guys can choose not to buy.

Thanks Dan. This largely answers the question that I asked you in the other thread. Hopefully now those planning on persisting with comments like "Don't blame the devs, it's all the suits fault" will consider these words of yours beforehand. :up:

Quote:

Hopefully now those planning on persisting with comments like "Don't blame the devs, it's all the suits fault" will consider these words of yours beforehand.

+1:yep:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak (Post 1292472)

This pseudo "mea culpa" is welcomed.

WTF!!....I can't believe I've read that :nope:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus (Post 1293949)

So every time someone says something like this, all your doing is driving a wedge between modder and developer, and between modders themselves.

Agreed (regarding the link) and for the record.....some of the Grey Wolves (myself included) have met Dan in person and consider him a trustworthy friend, a guy with a high level of self esteem, development skills and professional integrity.

I would thank everybody/anybody to cease using the example of The Grey Wolves versus SHV for comparison purposes to make any points in this debate.

The Grey Wolves have never considered themselves to be in any form of competition with Ubisoft....in fact we are on record as acknowledging the basic principle/fact that without the skills of the Ubisoft SH Development Team there would not have been a basis/foundation for The Grey Wolves to work on.

THE GREY WOLVES DO NOT WELCOME SUCH COMPARISONS http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...ies/pirate.gif

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat (Post 1292807)

... I don't think people realize how much research, time and effort went into this and how big an impact it will have on the game atmosphere;

I do. We spend ages waiting for Dan to come out of that boat in Kiel last September. :03:

It's good to see that most of that presumably 'lost' time turned out to be a pretty good investment after all. :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna (Post 1296355)

WTF!!....I can't believe I've read that :nope:

Agreed (regarding the link) and for the record.....some of the Grey Wolves (myself included) have met Dan in person and consider him a trustworthy friend, a guy with a high level of self esteem, development skills and professional integrity.

I would thank everybody/anybody to cease using the example of The Grey Wolves versus SHV for comparison purposes to make any points in this debate.

The Grey Wolves have never considered themselves to be in any form of competition with Ubisoft....in fact we are on record as acknowledging the basic principle/fact that without the skills of the Ubisoft SH Development Team there would not have been a basis/foundation for The Grey Wolves to work on.

THE GREY WOLVES DO NOT WELCOME SUCH COMPARISONS http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...ies/pirate.gif

Well said... :yep:

And Dan if your ever back in NYC, I have much better places to eat and or drink!! :up:

I fully respect "Dan" comming in here and speaking to us directly about addressing our concerns for the game and bug squashing.

That said...

I'm just not very optomistic that UBISOFT will give Dan any time at all to address SH5 since he and the other Devs are already heavily involed in other projects under the oppressive yoke of UBI to; "Turn em' and burn em"... :damn:

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanaiba (Post 1292441)

Well, I cannot post everything that I could say, indeed. But still:

Negative Feedback received about Silent Hunter generally fits into the following categories:

A - wrong expectations (some thing are just not in the scope of sh5)
B - legitimate concerns about bugs and unfinished features - Most are NOT news to me, since I have a list bigger than the forum. Trust me, you cannot match my expectations - but then again, the same could be said by most of the serious, passionate game developers out there.
C - legitimate concerns about some design choices - like for example the interface. Part of these I can understand, but I am not that concerned since most can be fixed easily by modding. Getting a SH4 style interface back in the game is very easy.

As I was saying in another thread, I have no reservations that WITH TIME (equal patches + mods) this will be THE ONLY SUBSIM TO PLAY. Calling this game arcade is wrong, its no more arcade than SH3 or 4. Calling this an RPG is partly wrong, is simply as simulation as the games before but with an extra layer of RPG like crew development.

I am not at all happy with the current state of the RPG parts (long story) but:
a) nobody is forcing people to use them
b) they can be modded into something more realistic

I will stand by the concept of the RPG parts any day, because I have read enough books to understand that some things that happen in war are simply not justified by technical specifications and field manuals. At some point the man is the one that matters the most.

Before I close this down, I have two more things to say:

1) Ubisoft is a company, of which Ubisoft Romania is a part. Please stop separating the two. Not everything that is good is our merit, not everything that is bad is "the suits" fault. I, of all people, have my parts in the failures of SH5. The people "high up" could have simply decided not to do another SH, just as you guys can choose not to buy.

2) Please stop trying to create a war / antagonism between modders and devs, we need each other.

So, for my final statement of the day, NO, I am not happy with the state of SH5. Of course, except for SH3 - which was not perfect either - I have never been happy with the release of any of my projects.

I have much trust in the potential of SH5, but I am not a fortune teller. Did I quit my job after the launch? No. Am I not a man? I wonder.

People might not buy the game, miss on fun, and not suffer any problems that the game has at the moment. But for the guys that did invest their trust in us, I'd say they need us here.

Yes, Gunnodayak, it took me time to write this long answer, and I waited for the lunchbreak in order not to disturb my current work assignments.

Well, you tried your best and failed. Nothing wrong with that.

Also, thank you for not taking the easy road and perpetuating the "devs" vs "suits" myth to avoid any blame. It would have been easy to do...too many people, who have their own axes to grind and don't understand the game industry, postulate that as a way to bash a game while protecting their own political agendas...it's stupid. When undertaking any complex product like a game, a team is a team... trade-offs are made on both sides with eyes wide open. UBI produced this game...suits and devs. So, whatever it is...it's finally a UBI product...good, bad, or indifferent.

You've all but conceded that the quality of SH has been on a downhill slope after SH3...some might say, as steep downhill slope....that's just the way it is...you can't comment on that, but it's obvious. You are an honest man, constrained by loyalties that run deep.

What I think many people here see are those bugs in SH4 that made it into SH5...and it's hard to explain that. It really is. It's what I call a 'repeat writeup'.

But you know the situation and you know this isn't all directed at you..in fact, you may not be to blame at all. But as THE dev face of SH5, you have to understand how it feels to people who really care.

So, don't put it all in your shoulders...just understand that a passion for Subsims is driving this. Many of us feel that what we got was not good enough to justify the money. You probably can't do anything about it...or maybe you can. I don't know. This game was about 1/3 of the way through a normal dev process...that is obvious too. QA was substantially lacking...even more than SH4.

BTW, the modders don't get paid. No game should ever be released with the expectations that the 'modders will fix it'. That isn't right. The modders are there to lift a good game up...not make a bad effort marginally playable.

Wow!!

Talk about kickin a man when he is down.

"you tried and failed"

He did? Really? Have you looked at the work that went into the game so far? Have you looked at the attention to detail...the fact for the most part the sim is stable.

DRM is a major road block. Let's just leave that there.

Bugs from SH4 are also a glaring problem. But they will be dealt with.

SH5 was built on Sh4. Sh4 in turn was built off of Sh3. Some bugs Sh4 had were directly from Sh3, but we were spoiled to the beauty that sh3 became....because of modders. Do you not recall the crashes to desk tops. The need for 4 patches to get it running right?

Unfortunately Sh4 not only had sh3's bugs but also it's own. And for some reason some functionality was removed.

Now sh5 has the same bugs as SH4. The same elements of functionality have been removed as Sh5, and those will return, some already have.

The new code that was mentioned is undoubtedly the crew management, as well as an entire Uboat modeled. This was a HUGE undertaking, which would explain the use of Sh4 code opposed to entirely new code....which would have brought about other nightmares to be sure.

Keeping that in mind, and realizing PC games are projects for both the devs and the players, this sim is very good.

It has no where else to go but up.

"He did? Really? Have you looked at the work that went into the game so far? Have you looked at the attention to detail...the fact for the most part the sim is stable."

I appreciate your response...but you've said absolutely nothing to refute my points. In fact, you just repeated them.

I posted my opinion...I don't feel the game is 'stable'...but you and I could very well have different definitions of that term.

Dan, Modders:

Ignore the uselessly negative feedback and concentrate on the stuff that will help you solve problems. We are here to help. We are not going to drive a wedge between anyone. Cast aside anybody that would drive such a wedge without a second glance. Beware the rant threads.

Impatient Gamers:

Cool your turkey feathers and let the men do their work. It's hard enough to put a complex project together within a specified time frame and produce anything short of a masterpiece. Take a break from your game, get some sack time, and come back tomorrow with a fresh mind so that you can help sort these issues out.

My advice would be to keep the truly illegitimate negatives to rant threads. If you hate the game as it is now, and if you cannot see your way toward helping the Ubisoft devs correct their errors, then throw your copy of Silent Hunter 5 in the trash and be done with it.

As far as character goes, this post only confirms what many of us here knew years ago.

I bought this game in spite of personal distaste for certain features, and what to me was a very dissapointing SH4, mostly because I trusted in the devs desire to deliver a good sim. After playing this game some, seeing the mods that have come out, and easily making the game playable with just a few of them, I have to say I share the optimistic view on the potiential of this game.

Thanks Dan (and crew).

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanaiba (Post 1292441)

"Dan, Modders:

Ignore the uselessly negative feedback and concentrate on the stuff that will help you solve problems. We are here to help. We are not going to drive a wedge between anyone. Cast aside anybody that would, without a second glance. Beware the rant threads."

Hrmmmm...a lot of assumptions in that statement.

"Impatient Gamers:"

In the future, you would do better to refer to me as "customer". I didn't get this game for free. If I did, then call me anything you want.

"My advice would be to keep the truly illegitimate negatives to rant threads."

They'll make beggars of us all...because beggars are easier to please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fidget (Post 1314273)

Hrmmmm...a lot of assumptions in that statement.

"Impatient Gamers:"

In the future, you would do better to refer to me as "customer". I didn't get this game for free.

I see what you mean.

But there are lot of ''Impatient Gamers'' who are not ''customers'' and still complain endlessly without even trying it. (i.e. they've said many times that they would never buy SH5).

"I see what you mean, still there are lot of ''Impatient Gamers'' who are not ''customers'' and still complain endlessly without even trying it. (i.e. they've said many times that they would never buy SH5)."

No doubt, you are right. I suspect the DRM issue is at play there...but yes, I'm sure a lot fall into that category.

Nevertheless, many critics here have bought the game...and they are customers all the same...writing them off as "Impatient Gamers" is a bit too cute.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fidget (Post 1314286)

writing them off as "Impatient Gamers" is a bit too cute.

I know, but those were not my words though.

So no offence. :03:

"I know, but those were not my words though.

So no offence."

I know, so no offence taken. Also, I'm not offended by the person that wrote those words. I just have a different take on the issue.

The game should never have been released in the very poor state, it is full of bugs and there is no excuse, UBI developed the game, UBI produced the game, people paid good money for a supposed finished product, well it isn't! they were basically swindled, this is a fact!:nope: Ubisoft should be ashamed, and with the DRM can't even sell it/pass it on!!:oops:
Thanks goes to the modders ability to be able to repair some of it!:-?