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- Silent Hunter 5 (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=244)

- - AI Wolfpacks? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155281)

Thanks, that was an hour well spend. :salute:

I don't see what the enjoyment would be in wolfpacks. Watching an AI controlled submarine sink ships is not my idea of a fun game.

I want to set up and sink ships! :arrgh!:

Imagine how pissed you would be if you were trying to set up a shot and some AI sub sunk it first? :damn::damn:

However, gamers are different. I think the gamers who want wolfpacks should have them. As long as I can turn them off I have no problems.

It is the "lone wolf" aspect of submarine warfare that appeals to me. I don't want to be just number 1 of 4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild_skipper (Post 1161437)

You want wolfpacks : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQLsgFcMH5A <---- there you go wolfpacks ! ( it even contains an interview with karl dönitz after the war lol )

Great show...:up:

Looks like wolf packs were only effective early on, just like the uboat itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus (Post 1161602)

I'd be pleased that my teammate helped us win the battle if not the war. Your attitude would probably get you bounced out of the captaincy ASAP (or result in you not getting it in the first place).

It not all just about wolf packs, hostile submarines could also make for very intense and interesting battle situations....

Dont belive me? please watch this video about HMS Ventura (British) U-class submarine Sinking U-864 (Type IX D2)
While both vessels were submerged

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNiyO6ZV0CU
Id trade a convoy of Tankers for an SHV moment like this any day...:salute:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88 (Post 1161360)

Sure, but please consider this:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...0&postcount=75

In Orange....

:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomoose (Post 1161822)

Actually I think that helps prove my point. Adding "physical" AI subs would definitely be a recipe for more bugs and performance hits as opposed to "virtual" AI subs contrary to what is stated in the link. Perhaps the devs could make that an option to switch on or off depending on your system (now that would be nice to have!!!):hmmm:

1) Acheive the same Wolfpack effect for virtually the same amount of work. (Your proposal is not all far off from being an AI sub with no 3d model attached.)I highly doubt the same amount of work. If you're adding 'physical' objects then you're program/system takes a hit.

So you program a random Trigger to myseriouly blow up ships? then fool the AI Escorts to go and depth charging them, then some how the Ai need to know when to stop Depthchageing nothing?
Its going look very silly if it happens 2- 3000 meters away, when you have external cam enabled (maybe you dont). The whole thing will look very strange - like a huge bug in itself to most players.

to the second point -Rubbish! :D -an extra one or two Uboat models on the scene would make NO noticable hit to 3d performance whatsoever.
Have you seen this happen in SH3 or 4? with an extra two ships or and extra two docked subs in a port? I urge you to run a Fraps test as proof of this.
Or are you saying the addional AI scripts will somehow slow the game down? That would be a first in video games......

2) Adds the realsim of the Subs physicial existance - rather than being virtual.Who cares? Realistically you'd almost never see your Wolfpack colleagues.
Some truth in that,yes but dont forget about the external camera which MOST people use.

3) Allow for encounters, interception & engament with Enermy subs, even if the devs dont include any models for Non-German sub types - we can!
HMS Ventura notwithstanding that was a very rare occurrence in the war and IMHO not worth considering for SH5.NOt that rare - Allied submarines sunk
Granted that was the only recorded submerged battle, but encounters were not that rare, Especially in the Mediterenian which was heavily patrolled by subs of both sides.

19 Uboats were destroyed by Allied Submarines.
http://uboat.net/fates/sub-sunk.htm
Only 4 'British subs' were destroyed by U-Boats, (not including other nations)
But consider how many more encounters and unsuccessfull attacks there were between subs on top of this.
It would 'on occacsion' present a more interesting tatical situation- than the usual merchant/escort scenario.

4) it would help pave the way for a Destoyer command addon or mod. This I would agree with wholeheartedly.
No argument

5) Allow the player to see friendly subs traveling to and from portThis was achieved in SH3 already and IMHO is still only eye candy
Achieved by 'Modders' yes,

6) Allow for properly behaved Milchows (resupply Uboats)This makes sense and is an easy fix as it was simulated in SH3
Again, more modding work and it was far from perfect.

7) Allows the player to embark on side missions where they could Aid another U-boat in distress. OK, but seriously, not a huge part of the overall game.
No it is not - agreed, but again as with point 3), dont you want some rare some occorances on patrol to make things less samey?

8) Allow for the construction of an Ai topedo controller that can also be attached to surface vessles like the 'impotent' PT boat.This is a seperate issue altogether and I don't see it being linke to the virtual wolfpack issue at all. Completely different programming aspect of the game.
Yes it separate, but without AI submarines In SH3 & 4 the Devs had no incentive to make one - so the two are 'entwined'. however I am fairly confident they will have made one for this version. (touch wood)

My eyes, it hurts!!! :dead:

lol, sorry Arclight, is that better now? :DL

Yeah, I just put on some sunglasses, helps too. :cool: :salute:

Let us not forget AI Allied subs.....or playable would be even better :DL

The only way to realistically do Wolfpacks is through Multiplayer mode. Sorry, but that's a fact.

Maybe a randomly generated wolf pack with a slight chance but only for convoys over a certain large size .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanzfeld (Post 1158916)

We sent a man to the moon in the 60's with the aid of an onboard computer that had less capability then the watch I am wearing.

A real (often called 'strong') A.I. has nothing in common with computing. There's still no robots and intelligent machines around us. Most computer scientists now think that creating such machines is an impossible task.

Quote:

Originally Posted by karamazovnew (Post 1156112)

We don't want wolfpacks, we just don't want to feel that we're alone there. Dynamic communications and reports, radio messages from other boats and from the sinking ships, orders that make sense from BdU, weather reports from the entire ocean, that's what wolpacks were all about.

Exactly.

Give a player control of 10+ wolfpack submarines? Probably not a good idea at all. I don't like the idea of converting SH into real-time strategy game.

As far as I know most U-boats sunk by allied submarines were not sunk in a dogfight but with the same tactics the U-Boats sunk allied merchants: sit in the dark and wait until the bait shows up- then hit and run.

Imagine sailing from Lorient in 1941 and 60 km west you get a sudden death screen: hit by torpedo. I'd love it!

Real wolfpack AI torpedos would even be a threat to the player's U-boat.
Again the screen: hit by torpedo.

Btw - I'm sure it is not an affair for the pros to script U-boat and torpedo AI.
But I'd prefer to see torpedo bombers attacking convoys in the Mediterranean or in the Channel and DDs laying mines of the British east coast.
Rare events should not be modelled - like sub on U-Boat dogfight or sinking fishtrawlers in the black sea with handgranades...

Quote:

Originally Posted by h.sie (Post 1157644)

The good old Aces of the Deep showed that it could not be so hard to program Ai-wolfpacks.

The gameplay of Aces and the graphics of SH3/4 and no bugs , that would be the ideal game for me.

Yep yep and yep !!!

:yep:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman (Post 1159329)

I had readed it long before you ever heard about subsim.com or modding SH3 :salute:

Had you? I'm impressed that you know when I first heard about subsim.com and modding SH3. Although I'm perplexed as to what bearing either has on having a knowledge of the U-boat War. Fortunately I don't feel the need to stroke my ego the same way and attempt further "oneupmanship".

Frankly, a poor attempt at rebuttal, and one that instantly loses my respect. :down:

I belive in Wolfpacks. Why? Because UBI already gave us co-operative surface ships and planes in IV. I think that was just an exercise for something else. I'm also sure we won't get 50+ boat packs, but just little ones with few subs. But even that would be better than nothing. And why then they are so silent on it? Propably because there is still some problems waiting for solution.

And I might be wrong too, as usually.

Greetings,
-RC-

Quote:

I'm impressed that you know when I first heard about subsim.com and modding SH3

Subsim.com is online since 1997, so you would not have heard about it before. That was the idea behind that comment, though you obviously didn't get it.

To the rest of your post, i.e. the personal remarks, I'll make my comments per PM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman (Post 1164598)

To the rest of your post, i.e. the personal remarks, I'll make my comments per PM.

thank you