Ubisoft can shove SH5 where the sun don't shine!

Whoa. I do not think it is at all productive to get torqued up and rant to a sim producer as if they owe a customer anything but well made product for the amount of money spent which is a pittance for the pleasure - a book, album, a concert, a movie, a sports event - they are all forms of ethereal entertainment. This sim is a terrific buy. I thought Aces of the Deep was very good in it's time but SH3 is better and so will the next generation be. I believe I am getting fabulous entertaiment at a nickel an hour if I calculated it out.

Personally, a constructive way to get the attention and good will of a developer who is in business to make profit is to suggest ideas to see if they can implement them within the development budget - they are not government contractors and beltway bandits.:arrgh!: They are game developers, entertainment folks. Perhaps we need to keep it suggestive and not offensive lest we lose the developer's interest.

One can always go start-up their own company.

Ok - wolfpacks are a must! I do believe I recall Aces of the Deep having them.

:salute:

I agree with PappyCain on this. Read the first post, Neal explicitly explained that there would be no flaming allowed. It would be a real shame if this thread gets locked out by the Moderator's.:nope:

Ooops..I need to heed my own advice. "Do not comment on other member's posts in this thread. Flaming is not allowed".:damn:

Lots of posters are talking up Wolf-Packs! Woohooo! :up:

I appreciate that many who call for an SH3 SDK, do not exactly know what it involves and what you do with it.:smug:

Except from the 3dsmax plug-in for the harbours, Ubisoft using inhouse tools such as Kashmir for the production of DAT files. These tools have been and are used with other games developments by Ubisoft. If this tool now become part of a public SDK, it also opens the way into other games produced by Ubisoft and that is not in the interests of the pubisher.

For the community a SH3 SDK must be specially created and that costs time and money. For SH5 Ubisoft should consider to create a special SDK only for the game like many of the SDK's in the shooter genre, which is independent of other developments and can be publish with the game itself.

EDITED BY MODERATOR:

I readed the post and though I would delte it because of being way off-topic. But the real reason is, if I leave it here and read it once again, I will most probably start shooting at sight :stare:

Please gentlemen, self-moderation is always better than external moderation.

You have said your piece :yep: ( a couple of times ) now let's get back on topic please.

I totally agree with all the great ideas on this thread.

A couple of additions to the ideas of others:
a) A rations/food supply system to limit patrol durations more realistically
b) Control over this system to vary patrol length, e.g. half rations (reducing crew effectiveness), or varying deck/AA gun ammo stores to allow greater rations capacity

Just my 2 pence!

WELCOME ABOARD!:sunny:

Maybe a real navigation option? Stars, sun. Or is that a bit to far fetched?

One specific AI Thought. In SHIII nothing happens when you peg a ship and the eel duds after slamming into the hull. I would think that a ton and a half of non-boomstick slamming into a vessel at better than 30kts would at least wake up someone. Most especially it it was say a J class DD. Not the thickest hulls. Maybe it could be looked into?

Although this is only part of what I want, I'm going to be focused on what I know well.

First, if U-Boats and fleet boats co-exist in the game, do not share mutually exclusive parameters between the two. Let the American crews speak what they regard as English and let the Germans speak german. Appropriate units of measure for each, let's have strictly segregated code for each type of boat.

Secondly, the plotting system needs to be reworked a bit. Radar positions are just fine, although I would like to see a radar screen good enough to translate a position manually from radar screen to plot and keep the excellent accuracy that radar really had. I think the TMO plotting system should be studied so that players can select no velocity vectors, no friend/neutral/foe colors, no ship silhouettes, no target id, direction of travel or speed on chart. Actually all this should be individually selectable options.

Then there is the problem of what to do with visual sightings. Pretty easy really. There should be a random positioning error of a certain maginitude, growing with distance. That would completely solve the plotting system.

More tools would be nice: bearing rate plots, spread angle calculator or chart, stadimeter plot as from the Submarine Fire Control Manual. The stadimeter should work as the real one, by setting the real height of the feature you choose to measure on the target. ONI manual should show measurements of multiple masts, funnel height, cabin height, deck height for CVs, etc as the real one did.

In all of this, heavy on the options. The beginner should have his hand held. He should be able to slowly wean himself off the helps in any order he chooses to learn manual targeting by bits and pieces.

I would love to select whether to run on batteries or diesels on the surface, with four diesels and four electric motors/generators independently selected.

The rest of this stuff, others are more qualified than I am to talk about those.

1. I would like my crew to be more lifelike. I want to see them sleep and eat and write letters and so forth. Make them actually feel like there for something more then decoration. Give us a cameras in the galley and so forth and the freedom to walk around our sub like a commander would do. 2. More ship types. 3. I want to see Aircraft Carriers launch Aircraft's. Instead of them acting as decoration. 4. Give the modders more freedom. 5. More realism! I cannot stress this enough. I want engine failures, My watch falling overboard in bad weather, some new recruit losing his lunch in rough weather. Make the crew grow beards as time at sea goes by and so on. Engine failures, Dive planes failling and so forth. Please add Wolfpacks. 6. Sea life, Heard Dolphins and Whales could be heard over the hydrophone. Maybe add some more nicer looking birds in harbours.

My contribution to this thread is a simple one compared to most. Just bring back the calender with the historically accurate moon phases and important dates. Maybe include local sunrise and sunset. A calender existed in SH1 and 2 so it seems likes it shouldn't be too difficult to re-code.

It's not like I'm asking for the moon...I just wanna know when it's full. ;)

Oh...and make harbours less of a pushover. They always seem to be hopelessly under-defended.

Radar: Surface Clutter and reflection of land masses. The possibility of losing/not gaining radar contact due to it being close to land.

Variable Crush depths for Submarines: Each boat (instead of each class) could be given a unique crush depth when it is "comissioned" by a player. If a player chooses to "cheat" by taking his boat below crush depth (just to see where it is) and then reloads the game, have the simulation recalculate the crush depth so it will be different on the sim reload (and recalculate with a -5% ;)).

Merchant Cargo: Add Timber as a cargo type with the associated increased bouyancy.

Submarine Fuel Bunkers: Model fuel bunkers and potential damage to them. Leaks would make it easier to track a submarine (submerged or surfaced). A damaged tank could cause a loss of fuel no greater than its capacity. Add the ability to convert appropriate ballast tanks for fuel stowage.

Compressed Air: Should be used for diving, leveling, surfacing, trimming, checking "air in the boat" and firing torpedos.

Submarine Depth Control: The possibility of broaching/going deep from firing torpedos, sea state, very slow speed or improper trim when diving. This should be heavily based on the diving officer's experience/capability.

Escort Convoy/TF Coverage: Create "Ranged Escort" positions where an escort is stationed ~5000 yds outside the close escort. Give escorts dynamic zones to cover rather than having them work from a single static point in the screen.

Proper Crew Rotation and Complement: Rotate members of the crew after each patrol. Limit number of ranking officers and Petty officers to historical standards. Allow the Captain to "request" retaining up to 10 specific crew members and a "decent" chance of having that request granted.

Torpedo Reloads: When ordered to reload torpedos, all torpedomen participate whether or not it's their watch. Torpedos should be loaded about the same speed whether at battle-stations or during an acey-ducey tournament.

Neal,
Please get this thread to the developers so they can see the passionate involvement we have with this monstrous game.

MAJOR CHANGES
-Surface warfare, preferably with small combatants like destroyers & torpedo boats.
-A persistent, dynamic campaign/strategic mode where you can play Germany or the Allies and manage battle groups, wolfpacks, convoys, aircraft, and surface raiders. There should be R&D, intelligence/enigma breakthroughs, random fortuitous events, and the opportunity to refight certain scripted battles (what if the Hood sinks the Bismarck?). If the Allies do exceptionally well, the war might end early. Alternatively, Germany may drag things out until 1946/7.To win, Germans must sink X amount of tonnage, Allies must sink X U-Boats and/or maintain certain stocks of resources. Mission results could be extrapolated based on players' individual patrols. It would be awesome if this could be done in MP mode on the different servers.
U-BOATS:

-Separate control of each engine. Steering with engines alone should be possible in case of an emergency/damage.

-Detailed management of crucial parts. There should be an actual stock of spares, lubricants, and so on (with the option for noobs to auto-manage). Randomized breakdowns, sabotage, and more aborted patrols.

-Ocean currents should affect speed & trim.

-More accurate depiction of crewmembers manipulating the controls. Each course & depth change should look more "involved" than w/SH3.
-A 3d representation of the player. Maybe even with customizable features, although it doesn't have to be as in depth as "The Sims".

-Semi-random crewmember behavior. Men coming off watch and walking through the interior, sleeping, eating, cooking, carrying out maintenance, etc.

-Visual deterioration of the sub during the patrol. Paint should flake off & bleach. Rust spots should appear, and on extra-long patrols sea grass should grow on the hull.

-Likewise, the interior should reflect patrol duration. I want to see beards, bloodshot eyes, dirtier clothes, spoiling food, and accumulating trash.
-Random events on board. Something like the "Pilot Personality Profiles" for "Red Baron 3d" would be wonderful. Johann gets a "Dear John" letter and can't stop sobbing. BDU radios that your sonarman's a new father. Someone gets into a fistfight with the cook over bad rations. The new Chief Engineer gets caught hoarding rations. If you don't want to take the trouble to script in all these things, make them easy to add with text-based files.
-A nightclub and perhaps a few other shore establishments, a la "Aces of the Deep". You could swap stories with other captains, pull strings, arrange for transfers, suck up to the brass (or mouth off to them), etc.

SURFACE SHIPS:
-Several variables governing ship behavior. Lookouts, engineering, and weapons crews should have different skill levels. For instance, a destroyer might have excellent lookouts but a poor ASW department. A merchant with low lookout skill should be in danger of losing touch with the convoy.

-A large variety of non-standardized shipping (SH4 was a step in the right direction). Semi-random merchant ship size and structural features would be great. More variable tonnage for non-standard ship types - a 400-foot freighter should range from about 4500-5800 tons, for example.
-Many different types of deck cargo. Deck cargo for tankers & factory ships late in the war.

-Better skins. Skins should change over time. Navies should have different camoflage measures depending on the time period. Merchants should switch from civilian skins to gray paint as time goes on. Neutral ships should have hull flags, billboard lettering, name boards, and lights on at night.
-Pennant numbers for naval vessels. Names painted on ships. There MUST be a way to assign vessel names to certain paint schemes, so that navies, merchant fleets, and individual shipping lines have the correct names.
-No automatic penalty for sinking neutrals; neutrals with contraband or sailing in Allied convoys were fair game.
-Spectacular damage effects. Metal should deform from collisions & battle damage. Fire should propagate realistically depending on how flammable the cargo is. Deck cargo should be affected by gravity. Ships should break into multiple sections, experience structural failure, or disintegrate totally if they are carrying ammunition. Different colored flames & smoke, steam, chemical spills, floating debris, etc. would be great.
-Visual damage control efforts by ship's crewmembers and escorts. Escorts should scuttle heavily damaged merchantmen after removing survivors.
-On a related note, cargo should affect buoyancy. Ships carrying timber should take many torpedoes; iron ore carriers should go down like stones.

-Better navigational behavior. Convoys should form up, merge, divide into subsections bound for different ports, and scatter if faced with a surface threat. There should be actual commodores and vice-commodores. Merchants should straggle randomly, try to sneak from exposed columns, and "romp" ahead on occasion if they have a higher top speed than the convoy.

-Replenishment operations with oilers, ammunition ships, etc. Finite ammunition supplies.
-Ships heading westbound should usually be in ballast. Eastbound ships should be low in the water due to cargo. Ship draft should be within a range, instead of always an exact figure - especially for merchants. Appropriate cargoes depending on where a ship's port of origin is.

-Real signalling with lamps, searchlights, signal flags, and semaphore men.

-Rescue/recovery operations. I can't stress this enough. Think of how different escort behavior would be if in real life they didn't have to worry about picking up survivors. Appropriate response based on ship type - if I torpedo a 1000 ton merchant and a 15000 ton liner with hundreds of troops on board, the escorts' priority should be obvious. Ships should actually launch their lifesaving craft, and crews should jump overboard on occasion.

-More realistic evasive maneuvers. Experienced captains should alter zigzag routines frequently. Merchants should always try to keep a U-Boat astern or facing towards their heaviest defensive armament.

-Appropriate situational analysis. Escorts should not all rush after the first enemy unit they see. If outnumbered or damaged, the AI should attempt to retreat.

-Better aircraft carrier behavior, with actual launches/recoveries, crash landings, turning into the wind, &c. Make them actually INTERESTING to watch.
-Make ships seem alive. Crewmembers should man lookout posts, do maintenance, stand watch, etc. Condensation discharge, whistles/horns, movable cargo booms, embarking/unloading passengers & cargo - there's just so much more that can be done.
-The option to inspect vessels and even take them as prizes, especially early in the war. Interrogation of survivors for information about other ships/convoys. It would also be nice to give them food, medical aid, the course to land, and so on.

GENERAL
-Keep the dynamic campaign. NO scripted missions.
-High moddability. It should be easy to extract 3d models & so on.
-More radio chatter, with distress calls, jamming, shore stations, etc.
-Better aircraft behavior. Planes should fail to detect the player's U-Boat more often. They should either be more resistant to damage or much harder to hit. Seaplane rescues, dogfights, &c. would be nice.
-WOLFPACKS! They don't need to be spawned from port to mid-ocean - just spawn them based on player contacts, if that will save resources.
-Cut scenes for abandoning ship, awards ceremonies, getting captured, and other important events. No instantaneous "U-Boat Lost" screen.
-A rounded earth.
-Better weather dynamics, with seasonal variations.
-Torpedoes for the AI.
-Intelligence information and reports about goings-on elsewhere. The game should keep track of historical figures: "Johnnie Walker's escort group has moved into your area." "Endrass sank two steamers in grid AM 19." The game should keep score for other captains in your flotilla. There should be the option for historical captains to survive longer than they actually did (or die early).
-Museum mode should be easier to load up. In my opinion, rendering the ocean & sky in museum is totally unnecessary. "Danger from the Deep's" museum style suits me just fine.

I was very disappointed to find that SH4 was not U-boat related. (Who wants to be a Yank floating around the Pacific in a beat up old tin can?)

Therefore my first hope would be that it is actually a U-boat game and if it is, it is almost imperative by definition, that there is some form of Wolfpack feature with homing beacons.

My second wish is that it will not require a Cray II to run it on. However since it probably will not run on my computer 2Ghz I probably will not be really interested in SH5 to be honest as I cannot afford a new computer.

I also agree to a point that Ubisoft do have a habit of giving up support prematurely on a product before all the bugs are ironed out and patched, this also would put me off another version of Silent Hunter.

I really wish another Company would produce a good U-boat sim and offer better after purchase support to give Ubisoft a 'run for their money'.

Radio Contact Reports: Contact Reports should be made from a long distance--even out of sight--of an Convoy/TF. It would be great if the player could enter the Location, Base Course and Speed of a contact. Responding AI units would react to that report. If the report is inaccurate, the more likely the AI units will miss contact. Big Reknown should be awarded for accurate contact reports.

Battle Results and Reknown: The Captain should determine whether a torpedoed ship sank and what its tonnage was. Damaged ships should be included. The more accurate the report, the better the reward. "Schepke tonnage" should be possible ;).

Ships less than 500 tons (except SC's type warships) do not count as tonnage. Sampans, fishing boats, Sea-trucks etc were not included in the tonnage totals...

Just a couple of thoughts (sorry if any are repeats):

Voice controlled UI. By this, I mean spoken orders to control anything and everything. Making the commands modifiable would be a necessity.

No more repeated radio messages from the user radio when running a patrol from a saved game in mid patrol. In other words, get the game date and time correct in a reloaded game and don't replay every event in the events.ini file that has occurred since the beginning of the patrol.

No more CTDs when an event in the event.ini points to a non-existent audio file, just ignore the missing file. Same goes for any missing sound file, ignore it insead of crashing the game.

One folder for music for all radio stations and one folder for each radio station. If a particular stations music folder is empty, play music from the main folder (or even from the gramophone folder), if that stations music folder has music, play it instead.

And, of course, all the other suggestions that I agree with:D