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-   SH4 ATO Mods (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=234)
-   -   [WIP] The Offical Post of The Surface Warfare Super-Mod (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=144946)

Raptor1 12-23-08 06:19 PM
You really need to change the fuel values on these ships, they are supposed to last much more than submarines in the ocean

Also, change the missions, one doesn't send a BB to patrol off Honshu without air cover, not unless one wants the BB to die a horrible miserable death

Task Force 12-23-08 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Molotov
This mod is something I've been waiting since Destroyer Command, but are you going to release the ships separately when they are completed or do we need to wait for them until the mod itself is released?
These ships are gonna be released In diffrent versions from what Ive read.;)

tater 12-23-08 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor1
You really need to change the fuel values on these ships, they are supposed to last much more than submarines in the ocean

Also, change the missions, one doesn't send a BB to patrol off Honshu without air cover, not unless one wants the BB to die a horrible miserable death
This is not true at all. Some larger ships had pretty good endurance at reasonable speeds (like 16 knots), but Yamato, for example, could only go 7,200nm at 16 knots. DDs had MUCH shorter endurance, and if they ran around at flank (which they needed to do whenever the CV they were with conducted flight ops), their endurance literally dropped to hours. The bigger the ship, typically the better the range.

Heck, I'd be surprised if any large ship had the range of a fleet boat.

Asashio (DD) made 5700nm at 14 knots, but only 360nm at 34 knots. That means she'd use ~10% of her fuel for every hour at flank.

Refueling was a constant issue for navies, particularly in the PTO.

<edit> some CVs look to have had very long range.

Sledgehammer427 12-23-08 09:40 PM
always an encyclopedia of ship info eh, tater?

Can't wait to get my 3D editor going again, lots of work to do!

ivank 12-23-08 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427
always an encyclopedia of ship info eh, tater?

Can't wait to get my 3D editor going again, lots of work to do!
I cant wait either!

tater 12-23-08 10:59 PM
There is a great article at combinedfleet.com about the Solomons campaign, and how bunker oil supplies (or lack, thereof) contributed to Japanese tactics. Look around there, you'll find it someplace. The gist was that the amount of oil required to sortie the whole fleet down the Slot was prohibitive to do often.

iambecomelife 12-24-08 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivank
Quote:
Originally Posted by Task Force
You all are doing a great job on this mod.:yep: I am really happy that we are gonna have surface ships in SH4.:D
Thank you, mate!

UPDATE:
USS Idaho: (New Mexico Class)
P1) Left Pearl Harbour for Marshall Islands, Got there with 64% fuel left, Refueled at a new moving re-supply ship(part of my new Re-supply ship chain). Engaged enemy shipping and task forces: sunk ~12,000 tons of cargo, ~23,000 of warships, sunk my Yamato class SBB.

USS Colorado:
P1) Left Pearl Harbour for Honshu, re-supplied twice, sunk by air attack.(:nope:)

HMS Tartar(Tribal Class):
ran out of ammo, sunk, many problems with ships
Interesting patrol info. This may sound minor, but for British and Australian ships will you have appropriate voice acting? I remember that for the IL-2 series people from different countries volunteered to do new radio messages for UK/Aussie/NZ squadrons, and it was a major immersion booster. :ping:

peabody 12-24-08 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivank
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonibamestre
And why dont you create several tankers or resuply ships that can be called via an interface or just heading combat units to them ?
The replenishment in open sea would be a quite good aspect of all these task forces within this mods.
i just did
We think alike, I did the same to resupply subs during the Solomon campaigns. Really neat the way it works. Got the idea during a discussion about moving airbases to try to get planes working.

Peabody

ivank 12-24-08 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iambecomelife
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivank
Quote:
Originally Posted by Task Force
You all are doing a great job on this mod.:yep: I am really happy that we are gonna have surface ships in SH4.:D
Thank you, mate!

UPDATE:
USS Idaho: (New Mexico Class)
P1) Left Pearl Harbour for Marshall Islands, Got there with 64% fuel left, Refueled at a new moving re-supply ship(part of my new Re-supply ship chain). Engaged enemy shipping and task forces: sunk ~12,000 tons of cargo, ~23,000 of warships, sunk my Yamato class SBB.

USS Colorado:
P1) Left Pearl Harbour for Honshu, re-supplied twice, sunk by air attack.(:nope:)

HMS Tartar(Tribal Class):
ran out of ammo, sunk, many problems with ships
Interesting patrol info. This may sound minor, but for British and Australian ships will you have appropriate voice acting? I remember that for the IL-2 series people from different countries volunteered to do new radio messages for UK/Aussie/NZ squadrons, and it was a major immersion booster. :ping:
In the end I wanted to have a Aussie, UK, Japanese, Russian, French, and Italian voices. But, for now I just want Aussie, and English. Do you know how to do such things? We also need to redo the gun sounds.

Raptor1 12-24-08 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tater
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor1
You really need to change the fuel values on these ships, they are supposed to last much more than submarines in the ocean

Also, change the missions, one doesn't send a BB to patrol off Honshu without air cover, not unless one wants the BB to die a horrible miserable death
This is not true at all. Some larger ships had pretty good endurance at reasonable speeds (like 16 knots), but Yamato, for example, could only go 7,200nm at 16 knots. DDs had MUCH shorter endurance, and if they ran around at flank (which they needed to do whenever the CV they were with conducted flight ops), their endurance literally dropped to hours. The bigger the ship, typically the better the range.

Heck, I'd be surprised if any large ship had the range of a fleet boat.

Asashio (DD) made 5700nm at 14 knots, but only 360nm at 34 knots. That means she'd use ~10% of her fuel for every hour at flank.

Refueling was a constant issue for navies, particularly in the PTO.

<edit> some CVs look to have had very long range.
Hmm, that could be true, but a Battleship not running at flank speed should have enough range...

Sledgehammer427 12-24-08 03:39 PM
Quote:
We also need to redo the gun sounds.
sounds like someone needs to start digging through History Channel documentations, and Victory At Sea...


not it!

tater 12-24-08 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor1
Hmm, that could be true, but a Battleship not running at flank speed should have enough range...
16 knots is not flank speed. 7,200nm is what, 60% of the Fleet Boat's range.

Note also that real surface units would zig zag, pretty much all the time unless they were going FAST. That would significantly impact range.

The reality is that BBs had no where near the range of a sub. Particularly since in actual combat, they'd pour on the coal (figuratively ;) ). Also, since their smaller consorts burned fuel at a much faster rate, large ships like BBs and CVs routinely tanked up their DDs.

iambecomelife 12-24-08 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivank
Quote:
Originally Posted by iambecomelife
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivank
Quote:
Originally Posted by Task Force
You all are doing a great job on this mod.:yep: I am really happy that we are gonna have surface ships in SH4.:D
Thank you, mate!

UPDATE:
USS Idaho: (New Mexico Class)
P1) Left Pearl Harbour for Marshall Islands, Got there with 64% fuel left, Refueled at a new moving re-supply ship(part of my new Re-supply ship chain). Engaged enemy shipping and task forces: sunk ~12,000 tons of cargo, ~23,000 of warships, sunk my Yamato class SBB.

USS Colorado:
P1) Left Pearl Harbour for Honshu, re-supplied twice, sunk by air attack.(:nope:)

HMS Tartar(Tribal Class):
ran out of ammo, sunk, many problems with ships
Interesting patrol info. This may sound minor, but for British and Australian ships will you have appropriate voice acting? I remember that for the IL-2 series people from different countries volunteered to do new radio messages for UK/Aussie/NZ squadrons, and it was a major immersion booster. :ping:
In the end I wanted to have a Aussie, UK, Japanese, Russian, French, and Italian voices. But, for now I just want Aussie, and English. Do you know how to do such things? We also need to redo the gun sounds.
Trust me - you don't want me doing your voice acting! I can mimic a Cockney accent, but it's pretty bad; my Australian accent is even worse.:doh:

Regarding supply vessels, I too would like to have encounters with them, especially as an escort assigned to screen them. Even an "unglamorous" mission could be made interesting with enemy patrol boats, dive bombers, kamikazes & Ohkas... I have been trying to think of a solution to the time compression problem, but I can't think of anything. I suppose the game's bound to slow down if several friendly units are in close proximity...

ivank 12-24-08 05:02 PM
UPDATE: Hilfskreuzer and Armed Merchant Crusier Mod
 
I just finish testing some of my HK, and AMC's out, I found some problems and some interesting patrols!

HK Pinguin:
P1) Left Hamburg for Australian hunting grounds. (since there are no convoys in the Atlantic yet) no ships spotted. 1st ship attacked off Western Africa, large tanker, sunk after 7 rounds!!! Sailed to the cape of Africa, spotted 3 ships sailing, sank all, received minor damage from Liberty ship. 2 weeks later enter convoy sank 4 ships, lost after CL attack.

HK Widder: (new ship coming)
P1) SUNK BY BRITISH SHORE BATTERIES!

HK Orion: (new ship coming)
P1) Sunk by 3 DD, sank 1 of them.

HK Atlantis:
Left Hamburg for Australian hunting grounds, sank total of 15 ships(to long of a patrol to give details) sunk by Aussie air attacks, 2 bomb hits to forward cargo bay, sank in 15mins, heavy fog, very sad to see her go down by the bow.

HK Steir: failed to load, needs re working

HK Kormoran: failed to load, needs new ship, once SHammers427 gets new computer and can make new ship, I will re-do her.

Problems: Ships NOT compatible with each other!!!

ivank 12-24-08 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427
Quote:
We also need to redo the gun sounds.
sounds like someone needs to start digging through History Channel documentations, and Victory At Sea...


not it!
Just bought The World at War, and Victory at Sea lol

iambecomelife 12-24-08 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivank
I just finish testing some of my HK, and AMC's out, I found some problems and some interesting patrols!

HK Pinguin:
P1) Left Hamburg for Australian hunting grounds. (since there are no convoys in the Atlantic yet) no ships spotted. 1st ship attacked off Western Africa, large tanker, sunk after 7 rounds!!! Sailed to the cape of Africa, spotted 3 ships sailing, sank all, received minor damage from Liberty ship. 2 weeks later enter convoy sank 4 ships, lost after CL attack.

HK Widder: (new ship coming)
P1) SUNK BY BRITISH SHORE BATTERIES!

HK Orion: (new ship coming)
P1) Sunk by 3 DD, sank 1 of them.

HK Atlantis:
Left Hamburg for Australian hunting grounds, sank total of 15 ships(to long of a patrol to give details) sunk by Aussie air attacks, 2 bomb hits to forward cargo bay, sank in 15mins, heavy fog, very sad to see her go down by the bow.

HK Steir: failed to load, needs re working

HK Kormoran: failed to load, needs new ship, once SHammers427 gets new computer and can make new ship, I will re-do her.

Problems: Ships NOT compatible with each other!!!
Nice work with "Atlantis". It's good to know that you at least have a chance of raking up a nice score. IMO the game is likely to be slightly more difficult than real life - there is no way to fool the AI with historical ruses, like fake funnels or neutral paint schemes. Yet another AI improvement for SH5's designers to think about... :-?

ivank 12-24-08 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iambecomelife
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivank
I just finish testing some of my HK, and AMC's out, I found some problems and some interesting patrols!

HK Pinguin:
P1) Left Hamburg for Australian hunting grounds. (since there are no convoys in the Atlantic yet) no ships spotted. 1st ship attacked off Western Africa, large tanker, sunk after 7 rounds!!! Sailed to the cape of Africa, spotted 3 ships sailing, sank all, received minor damage from Liberty ship. 2 weeks later enter convoy sank 4 ships, lost after CL attack.

HK Widder: (new ship coming)
P1) SUNK BY BRITISH SHORE BATTERIES!

HK Orion: (new ship coming)
P1) Sunk by 3 DD, sank 1 of them.

HK Atlantis:
Left Hamburg for Australian hunting grounds, sank total of 15 ships(to long of a patrol to give details) sunk by Aussie air attacks, 2 bomb hits to forward cargo bay, sank in 15mins, heavy fog, very sad to see her go down by the bow.

HK Steir: failed to load, needs re working

HK Kormoran: failed to load, needs new ship, once SHammers427 gets new computer and can make new ship, I will re-do her.

Problems: Ships NOT compatible with each other!!!
Nice work with "Atlantis". It's good to know that you at least have a chance of raking up a nice score. IMO the game is likely to be slightly more difficult than real life - there is no way to fool the AI with historical ruses, like fake funnels or neutral paint schemes. Yet another AI improvement for SH5's designers to think about... :-?
I would love to fool the allies, I was so pissed, a perfect patrol, and boom!!! sad sinking, so slow and the fog, I almost cried.

tater 12-24-08 06:14 PM
It is unfortunate that the game will not recognize the player unit if it is in a group, or leading a group. Least not when I tried it (had to hand-edit the mission).

ivank 12-25-08 12:21 AM
I agree.

Does anyone know how to capture sound to use in the game?
I have the perfect main gun sound for the battleships, and battlecruisers, but I dont know how to get it into the game.

Sound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj-15O-BTDw

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5ATY...eature=related

ivank 12-25-08 12:31 AM
Hilfskreuzer tips
 
I thought I release some tips for my fellow raiders out there. Even though only the HK Atlantis was released, I expect by mid to late Jan, to release all the raiders!

Hilfskreuzer tips:

1) Only attack solo ships.
1b) Never attack medium to large convoys, if you feel the urge to attack a convoy, go for the small ones!

2) Never go after liberty ships!!! they will mess you up!!! I dont know why, but they open up before your guns can, and they do heavy damage! I lost 3 raiders because of them.

3) Zig-Zag when under attack from the air! Though aircraft can be shot down rather easily, they can sink you!

4) End patrol when you get damaged! no matter how small the %, retreat! Enemy ships can sink you a lot faster if you have the smallest %. It adds up fast!!!!!

more to come

Good luck my fellow raiders!


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