hey Americans you need to save your car industry or i won't love the US anymore .. dude what a depressing thread http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ns/larmes1.gif http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...s/sourire2.gif

a car whatever is name's Bentley or BMW or Porsche'll never be an american car :rock:

the american car 's the fun in essence

The larger BMW sedans I would take in a heart beat. I like the looks of the BMW and the Audi also. The Mini is very cool! Some of the two door Mercedes are beautiful cars also. Still, in support of American manufacturing, I purchase Ford. I like to keep my faith in American autos. :D

Of course you can, make sure the car is 5 meters long, 2 meters wide and drinks 10 liters/km. There you have it. A 100% genuine made in usa car. :p

that won't make me stop like the US cars

What are they ?

Now this is more level headed thinking. :yep:

Labor costs have always been the problem in their case.

Why have'nt we heard from the UAW union heads ?

Their just sitting back rubbing their greedy hands together waiting for the bailout.

Efficiency for starters. While US workers are paid (what, ~30% more hourly in wage and benefits?) than their Japanese counterparts, Japanese automobiles also take substantially less man hours to produce. And it is not because they are all tiny things. The Japanese started it doing more efficiently a while ago with a product that had US consumers doing some VERY enthusiastic wallet voting in not much time.

And then there's the management. You can scream labor all you want, but it is the management's job to negotiate labor contracts. It is the management's job to ensure their business is run as efficiently as possible. It is the management's job to decide what products the consumer is going to be buying. It is the management's job to react to intense foreign competition. And they have not exactly done an excellent job in any of these areas. You are right though, the Union's do seem to be run by competent people.

You could write a book with what's wrong with the US auto industry. And in fact...someone has and it happens to be available online for free through a university. It's 26 years old, and what is really that different?:
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=291&page=1

Saying it's all labors' fault is turning a blind eye to many problems (I know that's not what Neal was saying). Yes, labor did contribute. But so did MANY other things.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...7356-1,00.html
The American auto industry is still failing. As I said before, I tend to believe that the market can sort things out on its own just fine. And in this case, that looks like it means letting a few auto manufacturers bite the bullet. If this isn't politically acceptable, then we can't take a middle ground with another federal aid program. We need to 100% socialize OR let them burn. Anything else, and we'll just be talking about saving them again in the near future.

PD

LABOR COSTS. It's exactly what Neal was saying.


Neal Stevens : I don't think the problem is with the cars they sell, not at all. The big 3 do sell cheap, high mpg cars, as well as family cars, trucks, and performance cars. The major factor in their demise, as I see it, is their labor costs. The unions have grown out of control in Detroit

I am not denying that labor costs are a big hit to American automakers. But the Union's job is to get their members good wages. GMC and Ford's job is to sell cars for profit. They have failed at the for profit part, partly due to their inability to manage their labor costs. Partly due to their inability to compete in a global market.

And BTW, capital letters and underlining what's already been said doesn't constitute a discussion.

PD

Reuters developing story headline:
A CNN piece on GM's "downward spiral":
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/...une/index.html

PD

what are labor costs ? taxes , factories in US ..

big 3 leaders ask congress 25 billions $ to save them today , they are talking of the government as shareholder

Every day seems to be more and more bad news.

But I have to agree with those who are going against the flow of "Its because of the unions!" Yes a guy getting 20 an hour with huge benefits to turn a bolt a few times a min is harming but nowhere near as much as their failure to go electric a decade ago.

Yes I said a decade ago. The big 3 had marketable prototypes a decade ago but scrapped them because the thought was that the market was going to be flooded in oil.

Inability to see trends killed them.

Will it kill them all though? Or will it be a severe cull down to one or two? :hmm:

all french cars brands are in quite good condition and as far as i know they haven't much electrical models in their range :hmm:

Nonsense. Had the big 3 put out electric cars a decade ago they would have lost their shirt because nobody would have bought them.

Amen! As much as we'd like to think otherwise, it isn't just the manufacturers who haven't proceeded on the "correct" path (not that electric is necessarily the way to go, considering the ecological aspects of battery production and disposal). The average American consumer doesn't want to drive a Prius, they'd rather drive a Hummer or big fat hot rod, or a huge V8 pickup. The only way you'll convince the American consumer that they need to drive more efficient vehicles is when the cost of gasoline gets so high that it forces us to move in the right direction or when there is no other choice but efficient vehicles to buy.