I wonder what those numbers would work out to as a percentage of total voters in the two cases? I hate numbers that are "out of context", so to speak.:hmm:

But Obama isn't a campaign head, he pays someone to do it for him. He does not have to make financial decisions regarding how to spend the millions of dollars that are being contributed, his campaign managers do it for him. He probably doesn't even make decisions on strategy and tactics, either, he has strategists telling him what will get him elected and what won't.:D

Yeah, look at Bush. He picked all the "right people" and they're going to leave him holding the "sh*tbag of history" for all the cr*p they did while running his administration... :shifty:

We could go around and around for days about what is or isn't "Executive" experience. When he has to debate, without a script and a teleprompter and previous knowledge of the questions, we'll see how knowledgeable he is. I'm betting we're gonna a hear a lot more "Uh, you know, yes we can" than we care to.

Difficult to say, since the medias report about 50-50, with one week in fervor of the one, and the next week of the second.
But with McCains choice of Palin as VP candidate, he may have shot himself in the foot, giving advantage to Obama/Biden regarding the voters not yet decided.

How about another (offical subsim) poll:

Who would you vote for?

1) Obama/Biden US-citizen
2) McCain/Palin US-citizen

3) Obama/Biden non-US-citizen
4) McCain/Palin non-US-citizen

5) Undecided, both US and non-US-citizens

Yes, but either Biden or Palin would be little more than a heartbeat away from the Presidency. It is not pleasant to say, but given McCain's age and medical history, this is a much greater concern than it is for the younger and healthier Obama.

Alaska is certainly ranked first in geographic area, but 47th in populace, so it's hardly Texas, California or the states of the northeast. I'd venture to say that it's more than a leap from management of a tiny state to Commander in Chief of the free world. She's also been in the job for less than two years. Prior to this, she was clearly in the pocket of special interest, even going as far to support the infamous 'Bridge to Nowhere'. This flies in the face what had been one of McCain's strongest hallmarks: The defiance of special interest. Perhaps some more time should have been spent in the vetting process, as Palin continues to appear an increasingly odd selection as her background is explored.

The McCain campaign's most successful attacks on Obama have been in regard to his lack of experience. Palin's selection, although pleasing to the base of the party, has now rendered that strategy obsolete. This is compounded by the fact that neither party's base will be the determining factor in this election, and the selection of Governor Palin has not seemed to have impressed the moderates and independents that will determine the outcome.

I think the introduction of Sarah Palin has altered the dynamic of the race. I think the outcome has gone from being a certain Obama victory to a race that's now too close to call.

As for the argument about Palin being only a heartbeat away from the presidency. Big deal. So was Dan Quale. The reality is that a good President surrounds himself with very smart, astute people, and looks to them for guidance. The notion that the President makes all the decisions is inaccurate.

Look to who the Chief Of Staff will be for each candidate. That position is more important than the VP.

CNN (which is prejudice for Obama by the way) couldn't have said it better. :yep:

Good post Tak.

I can't see how Palin is going to win over many Hillary Clinton supporters with her extreme righ to life views such as being against abortion even in the case of rape or incest. Time will tell if Palin is nothing more than a one hit wonder. :hmm:

One thing is for sure and that is that this election campaign has really had some curve balls thrown in it.

Sarah Palin actually doesn't need disgruntled Hillary voters. She's attracting a lot of the undecided voters who don't want more of the same, but who are worried about Obama's lack of experience. Those are the voters who decide elections.

Who knows, we may see a presidential race between Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin 8 years down the line. :D

Maybe 4 years down the line. I don't think McCain could get elected again four years from now with all the folks worried about his age.

Edit : Palin may pull in those Hillary voters that were going to vote for Hillary just because she's a woman.

It would be interesting if Hillary ran against McCain in 2012 and Palin ran against Hillary in 2016. :D

Funny, I was about 50 feet from John McCain when he said he wasn't going to run.

Just remembered

Edit - More thoughts on the experience issue for Palin. She might have great skills for a VP/Presidential position. I doubt that anyone can convincingly make the case that short governance of a sparsely-populated state is a perfect qualification for President. But anyway, she might have it. But we don't know, and I seriously doubt it. We won't know until the time comes. Most importantly, John McCain doesn't know, and didn't know when he picked her. That tells me something about him that I don't like.

Back in the 60's everyone admired the Kenendy's in the white house from his wife Jackie to his little boy John John to his limp from being on a PT Boat in WWII to his statements of

"Think not that it is what your country can do for you, but think what is it I can do for my country"

Then he dies, right?

But in between he made a whole lot of mistakes of which we won't get into here other than to say that it was probably the Bay of Pigs invansion that got him dead in the first place.

The country loved him even with the mistakes he made, like Marylin Monroe being passed around to his brother. These reports were made known after his death.

The country still loved him.

I seriously believe that this counties men and women are falling in love with Sarah Palin and the same love will promote a land slide victory in November for the Republican Party represented by John McCain and Sarah Palin.

November 6th may be the day people start saying, "Obama who?"

Something from Bill Maher - http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature...ama/index.html

Geetrue, by no means did "everyone" admire the Kennedys.

Agree on the first statement. Hillary will resurface in 4 years. If McCain wins, he will pass the torch to Palin.

I still get mixed reviews on getting the Hillary supporters by having Palin as VP. I believe the reason is her stance on abortion.

Yep, that's why I think she'll, at best, pick up the "Hillary just because she's a woman" vote. Just how many of those there are, I don't know. Guess we'll find out after all the shouting is over and the post election pollsters tell us what we did and why:rotfl:

Statement 1:
McCains health is not an issue to me. Never has been. Both Obama and McCain could drop dead from a heart attack at any moment. Obama was a smoker to boot. He has successfully brushed that under the table. Heart problems really know no age. As far as his skin cancer, cured at present and I'm sure he is examined on a regular basis. Also, his family is known for longevity in the age category. Furthermore, for 72, he seems to have some spunk about him. My pop has had 2 heart attacks and 1 congestive heart failure. He is 73. Still full of spunk. He does not suffer the old age problems in the cranium as some think will happen to McCain. Look at Ronald Reagan. Took a bullet to the chest at about the same age as McCain. Walked out of the hospital a few days later. I think there is more of a probability of attempted assassination on Obama then McCain dropping dead on the spot. I think the health issue is in all reality a mute point. All presidents are surrounded by support staff. Palin would continue on with the same staff. In the end, it is about judgment that counts. I think Palins judgement is good.

Statement 2:
Although Alaska might not have population like other states, the fact still remains she has had executive experience. Obama? No. Biden? No. She has obtained the understanding of how the system works. As far as vetting Palin. I really do not believe McCain would let these things get by him. Americans have this great ability to forget things. Look at Hillary. Let start with Whitewater. Bill with his fun in the Oval Office. None of this brought up. American had vetted Hillary for 8 years and yet, she is on the ballot for becoming the possible nomination for the democratic party. Palin's family is like any other family. Welcome to the 21 century. Attempt to find someone without a skeleton in their close in this day in age. Obama, drug user. How about Obama's skeleton by the name of Rezko? Brushed under the carpet. Bush was drug user. People overlook these things all the time. Lets face it, it is not the issues that Americans are concerned with at the end of the day. It is who can make the best delivery, the whole package. Obama was doing well with this until Sarah showed up. Sarah Palin is a good pick because she is conservative, smart, articulate, aggressive, good looking, and a women. The democratic's are crapping in their pants, because no matter how they try to hit her, they will be considered woman, mother, haters. They are truly boxed in and they know it. Palin is an odd selection when her background is explored? Obama is stranger yet. Specifically his upbringing. We can not explore what he has done in office because there is not much to explore that I can find. He is 3 years older then me and I certainly could not run a country.

Statement 3:
As far as the inexperience issue, Obama has less experience then Mccain and less experience in an executive postion as Palin has. I really do not see what Obama brings to the table. Can anyone really find what Obama is bringing to the table? IMO he talks a good game but is as deep as a puddle. He has not really been drilled by the press on anything. I truly believe that Obama is sincere and wants to take on the job but clearly is not ready. The country can not afford on the job training at this point.

In my opinion, it is going to be a McCain blowout. Then you add Palin? Even the bubba's that never voted are going to do it for the "gun carrying, beer drinking, hottie."


Just my view on the matter Tak.:D

What particular system is that? Washington or Wasilla? He met her once, before last week. Once. I can't stress this enough. Once. In February.Then once again, a few days before he picked her. Does this give you confidence in his ability to make important decisions? This sounds to me me like Bushist "gut" bull****.
Many top staffers had no idea about this choice. There is a reason that she has not given a single interview, and won't be giving one for another two weeks. There are 59 days left before the election, and she won't be interviewed for another 14.

Aye, the Democratic nomination. Which she lost. There was no earthly reason for any of Hillary's competitors to bring up issues from a Democratic era. The conversation was about what to do after Bush, not about Whitewater or Lewinsky. This stuff would have come up if Hillary got the nomination, because then it would be relevant. not in a primary fight. Oh, and there's a large area of the internet/public that cannot let a mention of Clinton go by without throwing in references to cigars.
But you've only known about her for a week, there is startingly little to go on. The appearance of a whole package can't possibly be present, the first impression is what's happening here.
Rezko hasn't been brushed under the carpet, the case is ongoing. It;s just not hugely relevant. It's my opinion that no member of the Keating Five should ever be allowed to claim that he fought corruption, but it's not a story with legs, like Rezko.
Where have you been looking? Honestly, if you want a decent picture of the man, read him in hi own words. Look up the laws he has spnosored/introduced, listen to his interviews/speeches. Saying that he is only about empty words and "change" is, in my view, a product of laziness.
Plus, Obama decided to run for President on his own story/beliefs, wheras McCain chose Palin, implying a certain trust and endorsement of what she is and what she's done. That makes a difference in analysis. He trusts her to be President. Her governorship has resulted in increased state debt in a time of booming oil prices, and large levels of federal earmarks. Both of these are things the McCain has railed against. But his selection of her implies that it;s all OK. If he knew in the first place, which I seriously doubt that he did. This feels like a snap decision to me, one not thought out for long.
Specifically the second part - what does this mean? Quantified, what exact executive experience does 2-year governorship of 600,000 people confer that 4-year Senate representation of 12 million does not?

I thought, I just interject, that Palin was already on the VP list in June. So, yea.. even though she was not the favorite candidate, they had enough time to look into what she brings to the ticket.