:lol:

Brainstorming (probability of useless=HIGH): Do internal Components have a damage/hit point rating? For example: Does it take X amount of damage to bonk a Diesel or a Pump? Could these components themselves be resisting damage and creating an X Factor that makes test results so variable?

Yes.

And so opens the can of worms. Search for redwine's threads about his "die slowly" mod. It's a huge can of worms.

Regarding the diesel engine damage problem (there are 4, and you should be able to move with any of them working, but in game there are 2 that will take damage alone and leave you dead in the water, end of career). One idea would be to armor it quite a bit so the damage threshhold to even hurt it was such that only a direct hit on that part of the hull by a DC would ever have a chance. The gun DMs would be increased (or their AP values) so that surface actions would always be able to damage them with decent deck guns.

The problem is such a mod becomes less "portable" and requires a "supermod" sensibility.

tater

Gads... with the proliferation of new and updated mods, the concept of installing a SuperMod is looking more and more appealing... I can see where "One Stop Shopping" would be good for a noobie or someone who simply wants "it all in one package". I follow the mod threads pretty close but it's a chore at times and there is SO much going on!

I'm running 4 complete SH4 installs using JSMGE, MultiSH4 and JTxE for support:

A. Plain jane patched to v1.4
B. Copy of A with TM 1.7
C. Copy of A with Sobers Super Mod
D. Copy of A for my own work and other miscellanous mods...

Thank goodness for cheap hard drive real estate!

I may bump the MaxRadius up a bit for all of them. Maybe ~20m (from 16-16.5)for the 100kg range DCs, and ~30 for the 162kg (from 25m).

I need more lethality.

On the plus side, I've managed to get the diesels protected from all but the loss of the "father" compartment itself. So when the engine room takes 100% hitpoint damage, the diesels die (that's what I am assuming, anyway).

That might not go far enough, either.

tater

It sounds a lot better than what we had before though! Good work tater!!!

I loved your first release of this mod Tater
 

Doing the Midway Mission was great after using NVDrifters changes for the depth charge shake mod and camera work.

And eventualy the 30 DD's did run out of depth charges :rotfl: :rotfl:

So I will be using it again of course in my game.

Cool, glad you like it leo!

Having encouraged many DDs and kaibokans to sink I don't know how many boats lately, I've been surprised at how many VERY NEAR misses gave me no more than "deck gun damaged!" results and no hull % damage (before the % indicator I was worried a lot about cumulative damage). While I still think I was overly beat up by the 40m stock versions (enough to damage a sub at ~20m most of the time), I think that the range does need to be upped a little. It will make the close hits worse as they intersect more zones, and there will be a little more incremental damage, which I like.

A 30m radius will result in SOME damage (the minimum that registers) out as far as maybe 17m. More serious damage at 10m, but nothing like fatal. Testing tonight a little, then I'll release a new version (stock, TM/ICL versions, and since I don't want to muck with lurker's eqps (and none are changed anyway save akizuki) I can make a RSRD version as the only eqp changed will be to fix akizuki.).

tater

I got my ass kicked in the Midway Mission with the old one
 

Having 20 to 30 DC's droped on me at a time from all the DD's was nut's and took forever to repair the sub and try and stay afloat so to speak so no need to increase damage range on my part! :rotfl: :rotfl:

It was an amazing thing to stay in the interior camera views with the Adjustments I made from NVDrifters DC shake mod. I felt like I was in the U-571 movie during the making of it and kept away from the Bulk heads. :rock:

All the crew with no shirts on trying to stop the leaks and get the pumps working to get the water out and pray the DC's missed long enough to get the sub repaired and water pumped out.

Another words I liked the old work just fine! :up:

Cool. As I said someplace up in the thread, or maybe it was my "lethailty poll," I plan on making a few versions available for people. I think it's one of those things that is very hard to test in a controlled way, and at a certain level, it's personal taste.

So I think .92 might make a decent "slighly less nasty" version, and upping the radii for a "slightly more nasty" version.

I'm very interested in feedback on if the escorts run out of ashcans.

I think something like Peto's mod is pretty useful for making the DC attacks slower, and more deliberate which will stretch out the ammo. Tough call vs TM...

RE: DC lethality

have you tried lowering the HPs and armor on the sub itself? That has a far reaching, and positive effect with the subs overall "place in the world" so to speak.

You know, I haven't. So far the entirety of my sub-modding has been (with the exception of some deck gun experiments) my attempts to make the diesels impossible to wreck via DC attack.

I'm certainly open to it, because the subs are overstrong, IMO. OTOH, I think it is not as simple as the basic HPs, it's every single node in the zon, the zones, files, etc. All multiplied by the number of subs. Daunting.

tater

TRY IT.

Humor me for a minute.

Take whatever sub your using now, and let a merchant or destroyer shell the piss out of it. Take note of your hull integrity.

Then take the same sub, iopen up just its ZON file - reduce its HPs to 300 (assuming gato with stock of 600), and reduce its armor from 25 to 20.

Then let yourself be shelled again. Then look at your hull integrity.


component wise, its not much of a difference, because its the hull your reducing, not the components. (i think :shifty: )

edit:
oh yea, dont forget to take its crash speed, and divide it by half since your reducing the HPs by half (this is important for depth keeping - insta crunch)

Divide by 1/2, or half it?

OK, tried this. Was watching my hull % and learned something odd.

Only tested DC attack for the moment, BTW.

So anyway, MinRadius is 4.5m for the DCs in question. Within 4.5m, the entire EF value "rolled" is applied to the hull hitpoints, right. So a 162kg DC could possibly do 100% to the 300 HP Gato (modded down).

I get a hit well within 4.5m of the forward torpedo room. Wipes the room out, explosion mostly inside the sub. What do you think the hull damage % was after that? 40%? 80%? 99%?

How about 0%.

Did many more tests. Got shacked, and 1 DC took my hull to 98% damage! Other tests get shacked, 0% damage. WTF.

Hull damage seems like it is not to the HP within MinRadius of the HULL, it's within MinRadius of the CENTER of the sub. Just abaft the conning tower in the middle. Argh.

Gato is 93.6m long. MinRadius is 4.5m. That means to do any HP damage tot he overall sub, the DC need to go off in the middle of the sub in an area less than 10% of her length. Or maybe it's a middle zone or something. Perhaps werner has a clue since he groks the zon nodes.

ouch:huh:. If this is true than that sux. Is damage to a room applied at random or simply fore or aft?

My understanding is that you don't need to tweak each and every node in the .zon file, only the zones.cfg file. I was looking through the .zons the other day, and the only thing you might change in there is armor level, which is universally -1.

The higher the Crash Speed, the faster hull integrity is compromised. So it's halve the value, or divide by 2 ;)

-1 on the zon sends it to the zones file, correct? (I did divide by 2, BTW)

BTW, I'm not sure if I dislike my discovery about the HP damage only applied on hits near the geometric center of the boat. Part of my thinks that having a bonus for an amidships hit is an OK idea (the bubble would have to cause the boat to hog or sag, right?)

tater

Personnaly, i thought having compartment damage sans hull integrity loss was pretty cool.

Get bulkhead smashed, you start flooding. How now you have to go out of silent running and deal with the problem. Boat gets too heavy.. have to increase speed to maintain depth, or you sink. :p (also has the added bonus, of not being able to slug it out on the surface with destroyers, and expect to win, NSM or no NSM)