Hey Sordid,

I'm OK with my OT topic getting erased. Now why are you making nasty remark about my posts that have already been deleted? That's not necessary unless you have some shame left about your lies getting exposed. LOL

Ditto, I have no problems playing the German side as Hollywood and other films always portray them as being pyschopathic killers.
Many years ago I read books written by Sven Hassell who was allegedly in a punishment battalion, and since then I always read books written from the German point of view. And you know what? They were just as human as their enemies.
That's why I never ever watch Hollywood war films, particularly after U boat film about the Enigma machine (can't remember the name), but after watching it for half an hour I had to switch off. It was utter crap.
So, again I have no problem with SHIII or any other playing the enemy.

I'm so dizzy from earlier that you may need to refresh my memory.:doh: :doh: :doh:

I don't think there's anything wrong with playing Germans or playing violent games in general.

Being a german myself, there are a lot of people that I would never confess to that my greatest hobby is playing war games on the computer, as this sometimes means impersonating a german soldier, and this is still a no-no for mainstream people under the spell of political correctness.

On the other hand it got me into contact with like-minded people, and with all the comradship displayed here between people from all over the world, I think we are already one step ahead of the usual stereotypes related with this kind of activity.

Having said that, I still think it's important to have a clear standpoint towards the real ideologies behind world politics and not to be too tolerant with radical views.

For instance playing SHIII for the first time got me into contact with songs and material that are certainly problematic, and it made me realise that there is a limit to what I find acceptable.

Having said that, for me there is no better time to live in than this, we can discuss this kind of topic with people from different sides, and we can get our kicks in front of a computer screen where no one is hurt.

Well said. Give the man a beer on me.:()1:

Discussions like this, as I feared, have little relevance. The erasing of informed opinion and well researched contributions does but one thing: it defeats the very purpose of the discussion. The central focus was the supposed stigma attached to playing a German subcommander. It is the notion that there ought to be a stigma that should be attacked and ridiculed. There should be no more of a stigma attached to playing as a German than as an American, a Brit or dare I say a Russian. It is this rule of political oppression in western culture which has deemed it acceptable to walk down the street wearing symbols of the murderous Soviet regime, yet any mention of Nazism is frowned upon.

With regards the situation in Poland, one has every right to question the motives of the American and British governments in their stance on the protection of Polish sovereignty. The atrocity of Katyn Forest and the blatant refusal of the British government to acknowledge the rightful cause and the Polish victims only places distrust in the mind of historical observers.

Whew, a bit to much revisionist history in this thread for my taste, think it's best I bow out of it :roll:

Stick around man. I fully expect it to boil up again.:nope:

Well, in response to the original topic of this thread, no I have no reservation whatsoever about playing a German, in fact I actually prefer to be German in any game where it is possible.

I don't even really know why to be honest, maybe just because they are just plain way cooler than any other faction. I'm sorry to say, but everyone knows that the Germans always get all the ladies, fyi the German uniforms of the time (maybe not all, but amry to be sure) were designed by Hugo Boss. I found a website where they talk about the uniforms extensively, unfortunately I don't have a link, as it is bookmarked on my other computer.

My views
 

I have had interests in submarines for ages, and one thing that stands out is, the Germans are the ones that made submarine warfare an effective combat tool. Think about this, Be glad Donitz did not get his way. The Nazi government put very little into the kriegsmarine in comparison to the army, and airforce, and lets not forget those guouls, the SS.

As far as the victims of the subs are concerned, Even with a direct hit on a liner, or cargo hauler there was still the chance of surviving the attack, and getting on a lifeboat, or getting picked up by fellow ships. Tankers, not so much.

But as someone here has stated, War is hell, and that is why it should not be done.

If Donitz did get what he requested, the war would have been much, much different. First off, the supply lines would have been wiped out the first few months. Any enemy ship would have gone to the bottom. This would have caused the opposing armies and civilians to suffer greater than they were at the time (the victims of the stupid final solution are exempt from this, cause you can't get much worse)

Now, something I have learned with my research for this game is, the kreigsmarine submarine force was about as far from being a Nazi force as you could get. I have heard that some jews actually served on some boats (this has not been verified). The german submariners are the only ones I have heard of actually surfacing and helping the victims of their attacks (that is until the Lacitonia incident, you should read up on this debacle) The Germans did this in both wars. This is verified from testimony from allied ship crews that had these encounters. A few Jackass commanders shot up lifeboats and killed men stranded in the water, but they were the exception, not the rule. This "kindness" seems completly lacking from other contries' sub services, Both American and Japanese commanders were known to slaughter men in lifeboats (read about the I32 a japanese submarine that was one of many involved in war crimes, or the Wahoo, whose decorated comander had no problem having the "japs" gunned down while struggling in the water) and in the water using the AA weapondry and hand held weapons. I am unsure what the Russian, British, or Italian forces did, though I have heard the Russians were vicious to there own men during the Russian revolution.

The general attitude of the commanders, and crews of the subs was "Hitler is an idiot, and Georing is a fat bastard." Probably because of the lack of support from the Luftwaffe. Only later in the war when Hitler youth brainwashed boys started joining did this attitude change, and usually these commanders were the least successful either through enemy action, or pure incompetance.

Now, for me... I hate the fact we humans are still fighting wars. I wish WWII sims were as far as one can go for war games because of the fact there are no more wars after WWII. I wish the type XXI was the ultimate in submarine development. I wish the B-29 was the final version of a bomber, and the shearman was the top of the line. Essentially I wish we stupid humans learned the lesson that war is both costly and stupid, and put our energies in something far far more worthwhile, such as the exploration of space, or the seas.

I would have qualms of playing a game from the tank commander of a german tank, or as a foot soldier view. The Lufwaffe was also very entrenched in the Nazi view, though most of the pilot's didn't give a fig about the party, they were just fighting for the fatherland. The aircraft of the Luftwaffe were many levels better than the allied machines later in the war, and to fly on that side in a sim is pretty much inevitable. Once again, be happy Hitler and Georing were idiots cause if the 262, Do 335, AR234, Go229, and other such machines got developed as they could have been, this world would be much different.

Did a quick search on Wiki: "Before and during World War II, Mr. Boss' company both designed and manufactured uniforms and attire for the troops and officers of the Wehrmacht as well as for other governmental branches of Nazi Germany, including the SS."

You're right about the uniforms. They put the other belligerent parties to shame. If you're going to fight a war (declared upon your nation, of course), the least you can do is look your best.

Yea ive always felt that the Germany miltary had the best looking uniforms (especially army) then any other country involved in the war.

Yeah, the German officers look really cool. It is mentioned in a book called "An army at dawn", that the GI`s said "the krauts looked like they where on their way to a ball" when the Americans seized Tunisia and rounded up the remaining Germans.

There is a reason you know. Hitler's view of the future of his German supernation was a work of absolute control, precision, and design. The German Whermacht and SS were as much if not more symbols of the master race as they were soldiers who defended it (and they were exemplary soldiers). The SS in particular were the guardians and the symbolic perfectionism of the master race, early in the war seeing the recruitment require physical perfection in both appearance and performance.

Also the extravagant beauty and complexity of the I guess you could call it "Nazi art" are likely derived from Hitler's views of the church. Hitler was very impressed with the ornate nature and tradition of the church though it's core beliefs he disdained. So likely I think he created a cultural and artistic tradition which his perfect nation could draw upon. The homogenous nature of his Third Reich required a powerful uniting emblem. The uniforms and symbols did this very much. And of course they were visually attractive to say the least. Now we can begin to see how he could have been so popular and successful.

But I digress.

I don't quite see what you mean. Are you objecting to people's assertion that not all german soldiers were blood thirsty heathens? If you're going to say such a thing I think you ought to support it instead of simply polluting the thread with a backhanded slam on what we've said. It is not a very honourable way of conversing.

Stop Demonizing NSM. Jew Commies Murdered Many Times More!
 

"Now, something I have learned with my research for this game is, the kreigsmarine submarine force was about as far from being a Nazi force as you could get."

Wanna Bet?
From Wikipedia 'Das Boot'

Criticism

In the movie, there is only one ardent Nazi in the crew of 40, namely the First Lieutenant (referred to comically in one scene as Unser Hitlerjugendführer or "Our Hitler Youth Leader"), and the rest of the crew remains either indifferent or openly anti-Nazi (the Captain). Some have stated that this scenario is quite unlikely as most U-Boat crews were allegedly selected from those naval service members with strong belief in the Nazi Party[citation needed]. At this stage in the war, morale was high and this degree of scepticism would have been unlikely.