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-   -   Should cannibis be considered legal. (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=95615)

August 07-13-06 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoBlo
Angel dust is phencyclinide (also known as PCP) not marijauna.

Sorry you're correct. It's been nearly 30 years since i've heard of anyone using THC

Quote:

And there is nothing natural about rolling a substance up and lighting it on fire in order to inhale the fumes through lung parenchyma. Its as artificial a process as any and one thats a man-made method of expediting the absorption of the compounds into systemic circulation to produce the desired effect.
I'd submit it's a heckuva lot more natural than extracting the active ingredients in a laboratory, then processing and concentrating it into a powder that is hundreds of times more powerful than the plant leaf it came from. Nor is smoking the only method for injesting it.

Quote:

How much or less a chemical needs processing is not a valid argument to the utilization of said chemical for pyschological effects.
Well i disagree. How many coca leaves would have to be eaten to produce heart failure compared to purified cocaine in powdered form? How many glasses of wine would one have to drink compared to 100% pure alcohol to produce alcohol poisoning?

Quote:

The total impact of a substance on society as a whole, not just those that use it responsibly but those that will use it irresponsibly must be viewed as well as the effects on a society and whether there is any counterbalancing benefit
So what you're saying is the potential damaging effects of irresponsible alcohol drinking is outweighed by it's counterbalancing benefit and that's why it remains legal in most countries?

Really, other than the false idea that the use of marijuana somehow turns a productive member of society overnight into an irresponsible drug fiend who will take any substance in order to get his or her "fix" (ie the "gateway drug" argument) what exactly is the overbalancing effect that legalizing it would have? Does its use make people violent? No it doesn't. If anything it inhibits violence, whereas violence induced by the use of alcohol is a well established fact. Does it cause a deadly disease? Maybe, there's recently been research evidence to the contrary but in any case it's certainly less dangerous than legal tobacco. What else?

It seems to me all that is left is "the message" that legalizing it would send, but what kind of message is sent by allowing more dangerous substances like alcohol and tobacco to remain legal? Inconsistancy for one. Hidden agendas for another. Distrust in the fairness and objectivity of ones government for a third and more.

On the other hand, like Scandium mentions, the cost of making gangsters rich and powerful, creating entire new classes of criminals, ruining innocent lives because of overzealous police activity, the billions of dollars lost investigating, prosecuting and jaiingl users without regard for their ability to use it responsibly and relinquishing any ability to regulate, tax and control a substance like marijuana, is an enormous drain on society.

How much more effective would anti drug efforts be if they could be concentrated on truely dangerous drugs like cocaine and heroin without being wasted on pot interdiction? How many violent criminals, rapists, murderers, etc will have to be released from prison because mandatory sentencing laws force the authorities to make room for the convicted pot smoker?

Marijuana prohibition has been a significant drain on society since it's inception and for all that effort and money it is still as prevalent, if not more so, as it was before it was first made illegal.

All I think people are saying here is the "war" on pot is just not worth it.

PeriscopeDepth 07-13-06 04:12 PM

Marijuana not being legalized because of safety reasons is hypocritical. Alcohol and tobacco are far more addicting and kill more people than marijuana ever will. If people are supposedly responsible enough to use alcohol I don't see a problem with marijuana. Presently, the laws are not very strictly enforced anyways. Most people I know who were caught with pot on them simply had it taken away or their paraphernalia destroyed and a short lecture from the cop. As to the gateway drug argument, there is truth in it. But keep in mind that the same logic that damns marijuana as a gateway drug could also be used to classify caffeine as a gateway drug.

PD

Skybird 07-13-06 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird
Point 1, I worked in a psychiatric clinic once. I know that both doctors and psychotherapists would strongly disagree with the opinion that the psychological habit of wanting to reapeat joyful experiences with smoking pot are as harmless as you make it appear, not to mention to say it is "safer than sex today". You can fall victim to psychological addictiveness as well

You can also fall victim to the gestapo like tactics that are associate with the war on drugs. Case in point: a police helicopter spotted a crop of marijuana plants growing in someone's backyard. A warrant was then issued to raid the home on this suspicious that illegal drugs were being produced on the premises, and in the raid the unarmed homeowner was shot and killed. All of this would be bad enough but for one additional factor: it wasn't marijuana plants the guy was growing, he just happened to be a run of the mill joe with an interest in gardening.

I don't just see the supposed dangers of this drug which seem to serve only to drive the production and distribution underground (criminalizing pot is about as effective as prohibition, and alcohol has many dangers associated with it to both the individual and society that pot does not); my position on it, I giess you could say, is that its the criminalization of the drug that is detrimental to society, and not the drug itself.

Gestapo-tactics. :dead: Political concerns :dead: You're a number, really. Okay, contact the LKH Osnabrück and the Städtische Kliniken Osnabrück. Ask for Prof Weig, the medical director of the first, tell him I send you (he will remember me, believe me) and discuss your strange stuff with him. It is solid clinical argument I gave you, which is of concern to professionals probaly not only in weired strange Germany, but in hospitals around the world. And you come with some politically motivateded nonsens again. I simply know it better - by my and other medical and therapeutical professional's experience. That simple. It was part of my job, you know. :nope:

August 07-13-06 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird
Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird
Point 1, I worked in a psychiatric clinic once. I know that both doctors and psychotherapists would strongly disagree with the opinion that the psychological habit of wanting to reapeat joyful experiences with smoking pot are as harmless as you make it appear, not to mention to say it is "safer than sex today". You can fall victim to psychological addictiveness as well

You can also fall victim to the gestapo like tactics that are associate with the war on drugs. Case in point: a police helicopter spotted a crop of marijuana plants growing in someone's backyard. A warrant was then issued to raid the home on this suspicious that illegal drugs were being produced on the premises, and in the raid the unarmed homeowner was shot and killed. All of this would be bad enough but for one additional factor: it wasn't marijuana plants the guy was growing, he just happened to be a run of the mill joe with an interest in gardening.

I don't just see the supposed dangers of this drug which seem to serve only to drive the production and distribution underground (criminalizing pot is about as effective as prohibition, and alcohol has many dangers associated with it to both the individual and society that pot does not); my position on it, I giess you could say, is that its the criminalization of the drug that is detrimental to society, and not the drug itself.

Gestapo-tactics. :dead: Political concerns :dead: You're a number, really. Okay, contact the LKH Osnabrück and the Städtische Kliniken Osnabrück. Ask for Prof Weig, the medical director of the first, tell him I send you (he will remember me, believe me) and discuss your strange stuff with him. It is solid clinical argument I gave you, which is of concern to professionals probaly not only in weired strange Germany, but in hospitals around the world. And you come with some politically motivateded nonsens again. I simply know it better - by my and other medical and therapeutical professional's experience. That simple. It was part of my job, you know. :nope:

Sky, I don't think he was disagreeing with you, just pointing out another aspect of the "war on drugs".

kiwi_2005 07-13-06 05:42 PM

Some really good replies here subsimmers, even those that are against legisation i respect your views. Keep it up, good reading.:D


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