Note how I never during the entire topic have called Das Boot realistic on those terms, perhaps only said "properly depicting (...) the submarine".

While the sheer displays may differ slightly (but never from the traditional and very smart WATERFALL), the passive sonar that is shown on CT is a horribly bad radar screen, a completely different matter.
You have your mind set on not understanding that I and some others for some good reasons do not like CT, but enjoy Das Boot.

The bottom line is that Das Boot was not necessarily any more "realistic", but that didn't matter. It didn't matter because you didn't have the stupid visual tricks that CT had, because in Das Boot they didn't attempt to depict things that they didn't really have a clue about. So at least they HAD the Enigma machine, and didn't replace it with a radar. So they both told a nice story, but in Das Boot, people KNEW what they were showing off.
Kudos to Subnuts, those links were fantastic.

The fact that you find a single factual error in the imdb goof-section (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082096/goofs) for Das Boot, and eleven at the goof-section for CT, should imply that Das Boot was more than a bit more realistic than CT.

I think the big complaint - which most people refer to as the "Hollywood-ization" of themes - is that films, especially based on war themes, often smack of American ethnocentrism. I mean it's a formula, where there's always a hunk, who gets the girl in the end, who shoots all the bad guys (who are typically German, Islamic, Russian, or who ever the evil-doers of the day are), whose American of course, who usually does it single-handedly without getting even a scratch. Of course most of the US films rub history buffs and aficionados the wrong way.

But Hollywood movies are made for one reason; $$$. And you can't cater to the masses with movies that are too weighted with realism. Reality doesn't make a nice 120 minute package that can be edited for TV.

Das Boot was a great film since it was gritty, tragic, brutally honest, and focused on the drama of the people who went to war in those iron coffins. It really gave one a sense of the desperation and confusion the men must have felt, as their efforts became increasingly more dangerous and sadly, more fruitless. IMO that makes good drama. In general the film achieves a pretty high level of realism without boring the hell out of the audience.

But as I always say, movies are for entertainment and you must suspend your disbelief sometimes. Sure Hunt for Red October was full of BS, but it was a good cloak and dagger yarn. U-571 was too Hollywood for me but I haven't seen Crimson Tide. But all I know is that post-Cold War missile boat patrols were generally boring as hell - they were a deterrent - so depicting it with strict realism wouldn't make a good movie. The only movie I can remember which was pretty realistic, and often held back the glamourization of the War, was Damn Busters. No car chases, no spectacular battles and piles of rubbery dead dummies. They focused on the science and technology and left the drama inherent in the real story to carry the film. The Battle of Britain movie was successful for the same reason.

I saw Kelly's Heroes when I was a kid and thought it was good. Don't know if it would be too "spaghetti western" for me now.

Well, you're comparing a movie (Das Boot) made in an era where you could get away with making "docu-movies" ala Tora Tora Tora, The Longest Day etc where box-office receipts were secondary to what the producer wanted. To today, where all that matters is how much money they can squeeze out of a movie, and a docu-movie would therefore be unaccaptable, considering it doesn't appeal to w ide enough audience. So, yes, Crimson Tide may have a few factual errors for the sake of entertainment, but all in all you can't fault them for trying to keep it as realistic as possible whilst entertaining at the same time.

What Das Boot has over Crimson Tide in the props department, Crimson Tide has the acting won hands down. Denzel Washington (twice Oscar winner) and Gene Hackman (three times Oscar winner) compared to Jurgen Prochtnow (who?), Herbet Groneymer (what?) Klaus Wenneman (is that a type of sausage?).

Das Boot is ok...if you like bad acting. :lol:

Please tell me that you are just kidding...

We made a pretty much similar post at the same time...pretty spooky coincidence. Look up "The Longest Day". It's about the D-Day landings, has a plethora of good actors (Wayne, Douglas etc etc.) and it's made in a documentary style.

Also, yes I agree with you that the Americans are always potrayed as heroes/superhuman, but Crimson Tide can't be accused of this. It shows the madness of US policy before 1995.

Kelly's Heroes is an excellent movie in it's own right...excellent actors and who cares if it's unrealistic. Still good and it captures the feel of occupied France.

No, not kidding. The acting is awful at best and absolutely crap at worst. Please tell me you don't think the acting wasn't overdone?

Go cry about it.

Well, usually when the Tommies are crapping dozens of depth charges around your tiny shell of a boat, you get a bit scared.

Did I mention this scene? They overact every scene...even when they're lying on their bunks. And it looks more like an asylum then a sub.

Here's a stupid scene: when they first go out and the Captain orders a test dive to maximum depth. And that chubby, mad warrant officer (stupid character) you know the one...scares the journalist. I've seen better acting on Sesame Street. :down:

I couldn´t agree less.

There were no chubby people in the boat to the best of my knowledge.

What about when they are checking for lice on that submariner's private parts? Nice scene...I mean, why didn't he just leave some scenes out?...or is that the "directors cut"? :roll: How about the scene where that submariner comes out of the crapper with his underpants around his ankles. HAHAHA :roll:

Silly movie...

Just showing life on a submarine... That's how it was, mate.

Then you don't remember it....

....was it? You were on a U-boat was you? :hmm:

Face it...not everyone likes Das Boot. In actual fact, I'm willing to bet Crimson Tide was more popular when it came out, sold more tix at the box office....and given the choice, 9 out of 10 bods prefer it.

Das Boot is overated...and not that good.

I was on a U-boat, and we never had any of those problems. We had enough bunks for everyone onboard, no one ever got crabs, depth charges barely shook the boat, everybody was calm and well-behaved, nobody ever had fights or got oily or sweaty, and the captain was nice enough to check to see if someone was in the head before ordering a crash dive.

Also, we didn't have any meat hanging from the ceiling, our bread never got moldy, and the diesel engines were very quiet. We were all also uptight Nazis, but we try not to talk about that! :D