I've been using the snorkle for awhile now and i don't have any problems with planes being attracted to it.

Of course i only use the snorkle at night and run on batteries during the day.

Remember, later war radar is at 0.3m instead of 0.03m. That means your snorkel must be BELOW those values so not to be detected.

After June 1944 the Centrimetric radar was introduced and it was very good at spotting a snorkel. You can snorkel with this mod until war's end -but your snort is going to have to be very low in the water with the waves probably shutting it of and on unless in windspeed under 3 m/s.

The other old radars, 1.5m now 2.5m should have no problems. The next radars (around 1941-43) from 0.3m to 1.5m should have no problem with radars except you must lay snort lower in water, it is about the height of the Attack scope 5m tall above water, go lower depth to only around 2 m is sticking up. Windspeed over 7m/s will probably start to overwash it and cause it to turn on/off.

I want to make it better, but not unreal. The radar in airplanes were very good to spot high up in the air looking down. The ship radar can be lessened..but listening to feedback. :)

I did not make it impossible to be cloaked,,,just easier and finding that sweet spot is very long testing procedure...so i guess it is 50% Ok so far...keep up reports, plus if you can, tell what plane and month/year it is (tells me what indiviudal radar set make need a personal tweak). Use your Noise meter too for feedback, and alot of these radars can see out to 15 km.

Syxx_Killer Sunderlands have the best radar in game...what year and month are you in please? If it is after June 1944, your snort must be below 0.3m and not meant to work if the wind is above about 3-5 m/s...

I should say in winds over 13 m/s your sub is showing and bobbing up in the air. Planes will spot you no matter what. unless I changed MinHeight (then radar will never see you sitting on the water on a clam sea.) Your snorkel is not suppossed to work in High sea states. Above 13 m/s is bad.

I know the snorkel can be detected on radar. I just think that it is too easily detected by radar in the game. When I got attacked I didn't save it, but prior to that (a few game days erailer) the save says June 22, 1944. The planes that attacked were Sunderlands.

Ok, I was scrolling through the list of posts while typing this and saw your edit.

What does that mean? The snorkel must barely break the surface? What kind of radar do the Sunderlands have?

See a post earlier for Sunderland radars up above in this thread.

After June 1, 1944 they have the best radar in game. The ASVMarkVII.

It can see you out from 16km (beyond your visual range) and has 0.03m centimeter radar by default!!

Which means you have NO chance not to be seen, even with the snorkel surface reflection (0.1m wide multiply 3 meters above water = 0.3 meter square >> 0.03m).

I changed it to 0.3m (10x) so if you stay below 0.3m top of snorkel, it will not see you. (Actually maybe 0.5 meter). I do not know since I did not test in game. Thatradar is very good. I set it to 0.3m which is like the older version so maybe you can hide from them lowing low enough in the water AND the waves are not too high. High waves uncovers the snorkel mast and exposes it to radar.

I set it so you could use snorkel after June 1, 1944 but only in a calm sea state (waves less than overwashing your snorkel which will make it turn on/off) and snorkel below about 0.5 to 0.3 meter above water surface.
----------------------------repost if not seen

Yes, late war, here is data from the Sunderland SNS

[Sensor 5]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkI
StartDate=19410101
EndDate=19430601

[Sensor 6]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkIII
StartDate=19430601
EndDate=19440601

[Sensor 7]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkVII
StartDate=19440601
EndDate=19451231

ASVMarkI Range 8 km MinSurface 1.5m
ASVMarkII Range 10 km MinSurface 1.5m
ASVMarkIII Range 12 km MinSurface 1.5m
ASVMarkVI Range 14 km MinSurface 0.3m
ASVMarkVII Range 16 km MinSurface 0.03m

As you can see, the last years war radar is 0.3m and .03m. That last year war radar would be impossible to hide a snorkel from, and the radar in the Sim.cfg does not have a range penalilty applied to it. Even 0.3 m is pretty darn good to detect you. And that is in June 1943.

Many people have lamented about the snorkel being detected by radar so easy.

All radar is at leat 1.5 meters, then goes to 0.3 meters, then the impossible 0.03m (3 cm radar).

That is why snorkel above less than 1.5 barely about waves will work and not get detected.

I believe this should be modded up to higher values.

First guess is from 1.5m, 0.3m , 0.03m;
to 2.5m, 1.5m, 0.3m.

These will let you snorkel fine until June 1943, then you must dive lower in water to avoid the better radars at 1.5 meters, then after June 1944 the radar is 0.3m almost impossible to not get detected unless in very smooth water to let snorkel work (water waves higher than 0.3m will shut it off).

Destroyers have thier own radar types too.
I am guess at a good number.

When one talks of 0.3m or 0.03m, one is refering to the wavelength of the radar system? Centrimentric = 0.03m (3cm) so one can assume the developers simply entered the correct wavelength for the correct system. It can detect you, but then in reality it could detect small objects like a snorkel also.

Wow. That radar pretty much makes the snorkel useless, then. :-?

I got that from here:

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/...d-war-asw.html

Reading that makes me confused. If that radar was that good, why would a u-boat commander risk using the snorkel? He would probably stand a better chance on the surface. :-?

Because the game doesn't model ground clutter or reflections from the sea. In perfect conditions (a perfectly flat sea) a centrimetric radar should detect a snorkel sized object, but in a slight swell with moving waves, the effectiveness is reduced. The waves create variation in returns, making it difficult to spot a small object.

Centimetric was a major leap forward in radar, giving higher resolution. But it was still limited by physics. I think radars these days go mm and micrometer - "microwaves".

Theory vs Reality vs in game physics model = this problem with the snorkel.

BTW this is just my opinion, i am no physisist and im probably talking male cow.

After more testing, I am CONVINCED the snorkel issue lies beyond the radar. I am still on the same patrol with the XXI. Everytime I got killed (which is dozens of times now), it was while using the snorkel. I have run on the surface for long periods of time without seeing ANY planes. When I submerge and start to snorkel the planes show up like clockwork. It is like the probability of encountering planes while snorkeling has been raised. Is there such a value in the game files? I have since raised the ability of the AA guns to be manned in 15m/s winds. I have only done this to the XXI because it doesn't look like the crew could fall out of their turret housing. :P :lol:

This is more than frustrating. :damn: :damn: :damn:

It was like once I left the "Sunderland gap" (grid AF area) and I got a bit southwest of my patrol zone (AM12) - enter the B-24s. You guessed it - while snorkeling they got me. On the surface they were no where to be seen. I might as well paint a giant bullseye on the sub or fly a big flag that says, "Hey! Free u-boat for the taking over here guys!" :hulk: :hulk: :damn: :damn:

Yep, try adjusting your depth I guess or wait a few days and someone may come up with a fully working mod. In the meantime, here is a little guide to help you survive..

If your XXI is getting singled out by the aircraft, I suggest a slightly unrealistic alternative (surface!!)

AUTO DIVE DOES NOT SAVE LIVES

If you select auto dive as your option, during a plane encounter, I believe you're more likely to die...

Reason.. Aircraft AI has problems targetting fast moving targets - fact (became apparent during AirPower testing). Elite planes suffer this more that veterans and so on. It is as if the Elite planes are more "fussy" and want to drop a perfect pattern. As a result, if you are on the surface and doing 17 knots (or faster due to an upgrade) they will overfly but not drop. Veterans may, but usually drop over. Competent planes are actually the most dangerous!!! Ironic. The exception is when the plane is coming from dead ahead... 0 degree bearing, then they seem to drop. So turn them to 90 or 270 degrees and hit flank speed as soon as the report comes in. If you have auto dive on, as soon as the report comes in you will dive.... reducing your speed to a crawl. Also, as you cant access the bridge as the dive has already started it can be impossible to sight the planes and judge the threat!! Once the dive is in progress, the planes have an easy, slow moving target... THE END

It is hard, as the first instinct on hearing the "aircraft spotted" is to crash dive....

If you stay on the surface, wait till they overfly and drop their bombs (which should miss) and then crash dive. As you at full speed, the crash dive should be more effecient. Dont use rudder, it saps knots. Dive to 100m and then move away. It takes the planes quite a while to turn around and come in for another attack.

That's my advice anyway, till a mod or something helps you.

Also at 1024 Time Compression, which is my MAX TC, I never get air attacks...

When a plane or ship is spotted I have it set to do nothing. I don't like that option to dive to periscope depth. It takes so long. I might as well stay on the surface. At least I'd live. :huh: (Boy that sounds ironic.)

I do this routinely. Especially with the IXD2. If a plane is spotted and I order crash dive, with how long that thing takes, I'm dead before I hit 10 meters. :lol:

That's odd. Maybe I will try that sometime while snorkeling. Not sure if it will make a difference for me nor not. I will probably end up dead before I even knew what hit me. The last few times I was attacked, I had the observation scope up as well and the plane never showed up on the nav map. :damn:

SyxxPaK
:-j
Liberator B-24 is even more deadly...gets the best radar even earlier than the Sunderlands.

[Sensor 4]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19410101

[Sensor 5]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkI
StartDate=19410101
EndDate=19430101

[Sensor 6]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkIII
StartDate=19430101
EndDate=19440101

[Sensor 7]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkVII
StartDate=19440101
EndDate=19451231

Theres no way that the radar as its currently modelled is accurate. The ASV III was unable to detect a snorkel period, indeed the only ASV radar that could was the ASV X, which came into service during the end of 1944. This radar was found to be able to detect a snorkel from a maximum range of 3 miles and that was in dead flat calm.

Another thing I'd be interested to know from the other members is how well the U Boat radar detectors are modelled. It seems to me that the Metox set is completely wrong. With a good operator at the set it was possible to detect an ASV I and AV II set from roughly 8 km away (sometimes more sometimes less), I'm finding that I'm only getting a radar emission warning when the planes are sitting right on top of me less than 3 km away, giving no time for a crash dive especially when combined with the lethal airpower mod. Also it seems that the Metox in SH III can still detect centimetric radar such as the ASV III, which it should not be able to.

Similarly the Borkum and Naxos sets should be able to detect radar emissions at a distance of 40 kilometers. The Tunis set should be able to detect emissions at 60 km.

That was my line of thought too....yes the last generation radar in late war could detect a schnorkel...but at WHAT range. I would think the planes would have to be within a close radius to get the small radar signature of the schnorkel.

I think maybe the radar is accurate...but what isnt accurate is the amount of planes that "just happen" to be within a 20 mi radius (or whatever radius they would have to be to see your sub) to detect your schnorkel.

I know when I schnorkel with ANY sub...its like a big red flag sticking up out of the water saying "Drop bombs here for best results".

If you read Werner's book Iron Coffins.... the only subs that really had any degree of freedom under heavy air cover after D-Day were the schnorkel equiped subs.

In terms of the snorkel the radar is most certainly not accurate, as I said only the ASV X was found to detect it, and even then it was only within a 3 mile radius in flat calm. In practice these conditions are not found in he Atlantic, so detecting a snorkel by ASV was, to say the least, extremely rare.

Otherwise the ASV II range on a surfaced boat should be 12 miles and for the ASV III, 40 miles, again these ranges are for a surfaced u boat in relatively calm seas. It would also depend on the height of the aircraft as well.

Yeah its the same for me and it just simply doesn't reflect reality.


In reference to my earlier comments does anyone know what the ranges are for the radar detectors in SH III, I don't have the ability to read the .DAT files, so if anyone knows it would be a good start, because at the moment the RWR's (Metox, Naxos etc) do not seem to be modelled correctly.

Did you try the first beta of the Snorkel_Radar fix for radar? I nerfed the values, but do not know if they are good enough nerfed.

It changed the MinSurface values so not as good. I may have to change the MinHeigth values instead if it is not working. MinHeight is set for zero. I would set it for 0.5m to 2.5m for the different enemy active radars. this needs alot of beta testing. I spent a month finding values for the Super Sonar that worked well.

The radar detectors ranges in the game are not very good. Here they are from the Sensors.dat file.

One moment to cut and paste here.

Main ones I found so far. They are all the same except for thier maximum detection range. Sweep period 15 (seconds?). Height 15000m. Min MaxSurface 1m to 25000m.

MaxRange for Radar Warning Dectectors:

Metox = 4 km
Borkum = 5 km
Naxos = 7.5 km
Tunis = 10 km

As you see, the enemy airplanes and DD will see you long before you will ever pick them up. Plus a sweep period of 15 seconds is along time for an airplane attacking you (may never see it coming unless the Probability to Detect is increased).