Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ. (Post 1959047)

Like many things in life, everything in moderation.

Let's see how long your utopian country lasts. The government has completely stopped regulating business and only enforces laws protecting your basic rights. Watch how fast we revert back to the days of Rockefeller and Carnegie. Watch how fast those monopolies roll right back in. watch how fast the people become ever more strangled in the vice of corporate greed. Government has a duty to regulate. Regulate the lives of certain people. Rockefeller was a U.S citizen. Was it not necessary to force him not to exploit people the way he did?

There is most certainly a fine line between true forms of socialism and assistance. Through taxes people should find comfort that the money they pay to the government will be there to catch them when they fall so they don't die of starvation because they lost their job and can't find another just yet., to build a better community, to do things that wouldn't otherwise be done or would be corrupted by privatized industries. That system is there for you, and i, and any citizen should they fall flat on their arse and need help getting back up. Uncle sam is there to lend you that hand so long as you pay into him. It makes sure that the hard working american citizen who gets laid off because of private industries shipping his job to china, doesn't have to watch him and his family starve in the gutter.

Not to say that there aren't exploiters of the system. I also believe this system should be regulated. You must actively search for a job. You can't just coast on government checks your entire life and expect to not lift a finger again.

but the so called "foundations" Of America that you describe sound an awful lot like 1800s America to me. And believe me, those were not good times to be living in as the average joe, i can assure you. There's a reason things like social security and welfare exist. It's because people just like you and me had to endure the grueling misery of deregulation and the insurmountable hardships it brought. And there are still problems today. Obamacare ensures that people like my sister can't be turned down by insurance companies solely based on pre-existing conditions. That people don't have to bankrupt themselves to get care for their family because no insurance company will take them. While there are parts of the bill that should be repealed the bill is otherwise much, much needed progress.

None of this wouldve happened without government. The way we live today is because of the regulation put forth by the government. While the boundaries for where government should stop regulating are being fueded over (legalization of marijuana and immigration reform, ect), id say government has taken necessary intervention so far with a few exceptions.

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen (Post 1958582)

The Fat Lady in more ways than one.

After their defeat in 2008, the Republican Party decided that the path to the return to power was to eliminate the moderates. So, the party and it's faithful went after anyone not deemed conservative enough; branding them RINOs and whatnot. And here we see the end result. Despite all the energy, the poor economy and the good debate performance, Barack Obama was reelected. He won almost every battleground state. He won the popular vote. And all this despite the fact that no incumbent has ever won re-election with an unemployment rate higher than 7.5%. What should have been a slam dunk was a defeat.

The exit polls still showed the economy as the most important issue to most Americans. That should have ensured a Romney victory. However, American voters didn't cast for Romney because of all the other baggage that comes with the Republican party. It's stance on immigration, abortion, gay marriage and reproductive rights are just out of step with the majority of the American populace. These are things that are effectively reducing the Republicans to a regional party, rather than a nationally viable party. If they want a chance to win a presidential election, they have got to get back in touch with the American people on these issues. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo (Post 1959145)

Where I disagree with you is the "end result" comment. I see the last 6-8 years differently. 8 years ago (2004) the nation re-elected a "moderate" republican, a neo-con, who was anything BUT conservative on issues of fiscal sanity. In 2006, the backlash hit, with Team D making significant strides in the midterms. 2008 - Team R nominates another establishment candidate with a history of waffling on issues that were not pro-conflict. In other words - a Moderate neo-con. He lost. 2010 rolls around and the "tea party" - a group of active, concerned citizens with an intent to get back to constitutional government - not "left" or "right" - suddenly makes its appearance. The result is a major gain for Team R candidates who profess constitutional principles that happen to also be "conservative" ideals. 2012 presidenctial election - Team R throws up yet another Moderate candidate - and even against a guy with a failed record - Team R loses. WHY? Because 3 Million of its voters stayed home.

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen (Post 1959149)

I think you're falling into the same trap that the Republicans fell into after 2008. That is, the belief that if only the candidates were more conservative then they could be elected. Romney, while a political chameleon, was as right as the party wanted him to be. He was all about repealing Obamacare,fiscal solvency, etc. He was also outspokenly pro-life and in favor of traditional marriage. He was as right as they get, and still managed to lose.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo (Post 1959168)

Look at Scott Brown. He was elected as a "conservative" - he represented as a moderate. When he ran again - he lost - because he didn't represent the conservative ideals he ran on.

Originally Posted by CCIP (Post 1959181)

As several commentators have noted, perhaps the #1 problem for Team R and their social conservative supporters is their idea that somehow they are ultimately right while the other side is based on delusion and fantasy, and that contrary to what real demographic data shows, somewhere in the forgotten fringes of American culture there is is that lost tribe of "true American conservatives" hiding silently who will emerge to vote someday and win. The very thought that they might be mistaken or not representative is inadmissible for some reason.

Not a good way to build a strategy.

Originally Posted by August (Post 1959186)

I'd also go so far as to say that if the GOP were to be disbanded, the Democrats would loose half their supporters because half of them are not voting blue so much as they're voting anti-red.

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav (Post 1959242)

I would like to offer sincere thanks and a heartfelt bucketfull of applause.

From the Americans present, i see moderate Views, no matter if they wear a blue-ish or a red-dish tag. Or the Gent' that distances himself from either side.

The bubble that is being used as a Pingpong ball, kicked about the place in a funny manner represents the dark Red (bordeaux) color that we europeans fear - rigid in his thinking, unaware of his country, and intolerant to anything but his own view.
He is much like the terrorist... Rigid in his thinking, intolerant to other ways of life, its either "for me" or "against me".
The difference is... the Terrorist has nothing to lose in here, and virgins promised after his act.
...and bubbles calls the Blue boy "the enemy invader".
Yea. Raight.

People like him wake me at night and make me stand up at 4 o'clock, log on to the net and see the counts rise... Hoping and praying that the Blue guy reaches the magic 270 before the red guy can.
Not because of love for the Blue guy.
But because "the afro hawaiian" spoke less **** during the last four years than the dude i call "whiteboy" despite his age.

Thank you too, Bubbles - your words and positions make me aware how goddamn close the world was to live a horror scenario.
How lucky the world is...

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