I love how it clearly says it is a list of old historic events and then has a link to the page of more recent events.

The major difference here is those in Muslim nations and enclaves are saying 'we in the west are evil, this book tells me so!', while those in the west are saying 'Muslims are evil because they are killing everyone!'. This "hatred" in the west is born of our own rational thought, much like the hatred of Fascism or Communism not too long ago, to deny it is to insure your own destruction.

Islamic ideology is like antimatter you can either contain it till it decays, direct it so it will annihilate with normal mater in a controlled fashion, or you let it exist without containment and it mutually annihilates everything it touches.

Yubba was thrown into the brig because he posted a photo, that he have posted before and removed by one of the moderators. Not because of some link.
It's better to link to a page/photo and give a warning, so the one who click on the link is warned.

Markus

But doesn't that train of thought make America evil as well? From an outside point of view, they are also killing everyone, and if their own media is to be believe, it's pretty indiscriminate. They also torture civilians and break the law when it suits them according to their own media.

How many times do Westerners cherry pick quotes from the Qur'an to illustrate how Muslims are evil? That book tells me so!

How many times to Muslims claim that the Americans are evil because of all the people the Americans are killing?

Both sides use generalizations and stereotypes to further their agendas. Both sides are citing truths and both sides are making stuff up. That's realpolitiks.

Sometimes it reminds me of the "logical" discussions my brother and I used to have with my mother.

Mom!, he started it!
No! you started it!
No I didn't!
Yeah you did!
No!
Yeah!

My mom would handle it by smacking both of us. Too bad the world does not have a "mom" to settle things. :yep:

Oh how it is needed now... :yep:

Guys, why this absurd straying into nirvana. My, you do not need to "cherrypick" the bitter rosins in the Quran. All you need to do is look around int he world, and look at the Muslim communities in nyour own place. Judge them yb what record these ciutnries show up with. the countries are at ther status of some medieval rogue states run by theocratic tyrants and/or corrupt dictators. They mirgaton communities in the West are keeping themselves shut and sealed from Western evil influence of the most, and the offsprings become more and more radicalised and reject to integrate, they often are more religious than their grandfathers and -mothers.

Then ask yourself why is it that migrants from other places that are not Muslim do not resist integraiton so bitterly, and do not make such a wave all the time. Ask why Muslim migrant groups are massively over-represented in certain branches of crmine statistics, while natives and non-Muslim migrants for the most are not. And finally ask what is it that motivates them most.

the answer is: ideology. And ideology that leaves the Muslim world in such a pitiful state as it is in since so long, an ideology that teaches intolerance against non-Muslims and supression of women, an ideology that is given as the excuse why integration is rejected, an ideology that kills apostates - what is to be thought of such an ideology? Is it a good or a bad one? Is it powerless, or is it influential?

Man, I am left stunned and in disbelief to see time and again the brain gymnastics tried by Westerners to gloss over this ideology and to make it appear as harmless and meaningless.

The West is really asking for it. YOU all are really asking for it.

And since some time now I have started to come around and think: maybe the West indeed deserves what is coming at it. You help to destroy your most precious freedoms and values, that your foefathers biotterly fought to gain and suffered over in defence, and you are not even aware of it. You just throw it away, careless, and not realising its real worth.

I'm becoming tired of defending this West against it's own lunatism. Let it all go to hell. Too many seem to be determined to race the car against the wall at highest possible speed, thinking the car is slow and there is no wall. What can reason acchieve against so strong a determination to destroy oneself? In the end: nothing.

So how do you think Germany should deal with all this?
Closing borders could be good idea for start and kicking out all illegals?

Mahdi will sort it out....:haha:

Alright, let's look around at the Muslims around me. Well, there aren't any, so let's look a bit further afield.
We have had one major terrorist attack which killed just over fifty people, and a couple of other minor attempts which didn't really do much.
Now, either we're really good, or they're just not trying because the IRA did a better job of putting bombs in London than any of the radicals have so far.
So, putting that aside, let's look at people arrested for extremism. There's been a few, and some of them have even been picked up after the police have been alerted by members of the Muslim community, but at the same time there's been probably around the same amount of EDL nutters who have been arrested for threatening to blow up mosques. You work out which gets the better headlines in the Daily Mail...
The week before last, two Muslims had the audacity to go sailing near where the Olympic canoeing event is due to take place, and one of them was even an idiot with links to an extremist...you can imagine where the press went with this story. However, if you actually bother to dig a little deeper you'll find that there was no crime involved in it at all...and the other followers of the extremist in question are...special needs terrorists.
I quote from the BBC with their description of this masterpiece of a plan to infiltrate the London Stock Exchange as stockbrokers, plant an incendiary device in the toilets and collapse the economy of the UK:
"There were obvious flaws with the plan – not least the probable role of sprinklers and the London Fire Brigade. The surveillance indicated the men wanted to plant the device on Christmas Eve. The building would have been shut."
Sometimes I wonder if they're really trying any more... :haha:

Anyone can be a jihadist, anyone can be a Brevik, they are two sides of the same coin, and if there is a war in the future, it will be between those types of people, and they won't get hurt, no, it'll be the people in the middle who are killed. Perhaps that is why it is so tempting to take sides these days, but both sides are idiots in my opinion.

Still, if European nations want to revert to the Third Reich and start rounding up and imprisoning Muslims, that's their choice, and I doubt we'll have any say in the matter. Likewise if they want to convert to Sharia law, what are we going to do, throw shoes at them?

If people are that concerned about the Islamic invasion of Europe then the only thing I can suggest is that they move to America.

Why stop there?
If you kick them out, they'll just come back in illegally, no border is 100% secure.

No, you'll have to detain them, and their families...but then you'll have lots of people in prison taking up resources which you need for your people.

You could always release them back into society and make them wear a label denoting what they are...

Or you could just...remove them...permanently.

Is that a road that Europe really wants to go down? Again?

There are about 4 million Muslims in Germany which is not very much.
I think Germany can easily take them in without any danger of becoming sharia state.:roll:

Germany also has right to tighten its emigration laws and chose who would be allowed to receive legal status and under what conditions.
Most countries do this one way or another.
Whats the big deal about 4m vs 81m...just a minor headache.

Its not the stuff "cherry picked" from the Koran that worries me, its the stuff their own damn leaders say that worries me! I'll pass by all the mundane anti-semite, and anti-female stuff and get to the good stuff...

Yea Ahmadinejad wants to bring about the second coming. A second coming that if you read what these Twelvers believe requires the Islamic nations to get their butts kicked first by the "forces of evil".

Yea I would be worried if Pat Robertson was trying to get a nuke too.

They just act crazy but deep inside are cool and good rational guys that speak rubbish for domestic consumption.

:timeout:
Is that meant to make us feel better? We just went from one nut in charge to a horde 78 million nuts. :hmm2:

I can't believe anyone would see the logic of calling 2 billion people violent radical zealots. How about I call all Americans fat gun-toting rednecks? What if I called all Russians communists? What if I called all Christians intolerant bigots? When you make these incredibly large generalizations, you are no better than the people you hate. Look at the amount of Muslims in the US. There are over a million that are active, and how many of them have tried to slaughter other people because of them not being Muslim? How many of them try to force their ways onto others here? No more than any other religion. I haven't met a single Muslim that hated my atheism or wanted to kill me because of it. They see themselves as just as American as me or any other citizen. They are just as law abiding as any other American citizen. I'm sure that a few of them do commit crimes though, just like Christians commit crimes, and just like atheists commit crimes. It seldom has anything to do with your religion or lack-there-of, but rather of the individual's thoughts and experiances. You can't just see some extremeists and label them all as the same. That's like if I saw a few German criminals and decided that "all Germans must be criminals". Hate the people that commit these actions, not the people who happen to be of the same religion.