not 1 cent over 10$ seems to be my theory 20$ currently :smug:

This one is repeatedly used to slam the game, but it's not true at all. You have mission objectives like 'patrol here' 'drop off this spy' or 'recon this harbour' and that is your mission, which you are free to ignore. There are objectives in the campaign, like tonnage amounts to sink, but they are not requirements, so you are free to ignore them as well if you want. You also have several months and quite a few patrols to try for them. You can still advance through the game, it just plays out differently.

Yes with minor qualifications.

I've been reading this forum carefully noting the problems and specifically, the ones that would bother me. In nearly every case there is a mod or learned playing technique to counter what would be for me a show-stopper. I think I could play this game without the DRM IF I was reasonably confident there was another patch in the making. I would use the time waiting for the patch to learn the game. DRM is a SHOW STOPPER. No mods or patches will suffice.

I've been happily playing SH4 with NO MODS. I only added 3-4 control keys for weather, tube doors and fuel range estimates. This is what I expect from a fully patched (not modded) game.

At this stage of release, there is TOO much dependence on experimental mods and there seems to be a consensus the Mediterranean campaign is a total waste of disk space. When a game's DESIGN frustrates me, I lose interest in the game no matter how slick the graphics.

I'll keep watching for the right set of conditions before I jump into the boat. My time is valuable. I expect a high level of entertainment for the investment and there are other games I play where the time is well spent.
-Pv-

Can you (or others here) expand on that a little? How does it play out differently if I ignore orders to seek out and sink warships, and go after merchant tonnage instead? Is it just a difference in medals awarded which doesn't affect gameplay at all? Or are you earning points for completing those objectives that go towards boat or crew upgrades? I'm not disputing your point, just wondering how it works because I don't have the game.

BTW, I would certainly try for a hit on a warship if I happened to be in a good tactical position with favorable weather, nighttime, no moon, etc. and I just stumbled across a task force. It's the idea of actively hunting warship groups and passing up merchant targets to save torpedoes for warship attacks, that I can't quite get my head around.

Two other things I'm not sure I'd enjoy are the crew morale system (although it sounds like there are mods for that), and the command system of having to run around the boat to give commands. Has that been streamlined with mods?

I don't know if you took my post as a slam of SH5, but it wasn't a slam. Anyhow thank you for clarifying with respect to mission objectives and the option to ignore them. I was under a completely different impression. :up:

Hi Frumpkis, I'm not sure on the exact details on how the campiagn is changed, I only know what one of the devs said, which was the better you do, the better a position you will be in.

As for being given orders to intercept certain targets, then it did happen that U-Boats were strung out in certain positions and told to hunt for certain types. Imagine if you'd been ordered to patrol around Norway to defeat a British task force and you'd decided to go off to Liverpool to sink some fat merchants, thinking an invasion would never happen... I don't think you'd be in command much longer :). There were also other operational orders, like orders to try to intercept the convoys that had the fuel for the allied offensive campaigns, so again the U-Boats were ordered to sink the tankers. The U-Boats weren't used in isolation, so they often got specific orders as to which target to sink. But if you want, you can ignore it and you won't be relieved.

The morale system shouldn't be a problem after patch 1.2, so the mods that fixed it aren't necessary. Suffice to say that if you sink ships, you have morale points available, so your crew can operate more efficiently.

No, not at all, as you said you had read it on the forums. There's a lot of negativity about and a lot of it comes from those who have no idea what they are talking about, as they've never played the game, yet they grasp at any and every opportunity to slag the game off. The mission objectives thing is one of them. This of course puts other people who have never played the game off, as they have no way to determine that these people are just spewing bile and just accept it. It's only a very small number of people who are constantly posting negative comments about the game endlessly. If you consider that 33% of people have said that they wouldn't buy the game if DRM were removed and take into account the number of people who would have voted no due to the false problems posted by the negaholics, then what effect have the negaholics had?

Negativity is much easier to spread than anything else and you don't even need any facts at all.

Voted NO.

As one with a deep interest in history, the developer's philosophy behind their design choices and the requirement to prioritize history over glitz takes presidence over graphics or UI when I buy any game.

With SH5 the Developers deliberately chose to create the Das Boot game, a RPG/FPS version of a popular movie based on a novel written by a wartime journalist. Those who might wonder as to why SH5 ends when it does and includes only one type of boat need look no further for explanation. What has been offered is not history but fiction, myth and propaganda, a historical novel in other words. It contains little substantive historical accuracy while merely providing an illusion of it wrapped in a glittering and showy visual game that just pretends to be about the U-Boat war.

Can't blame the suits at UBI for that...

Unless or until these aspects can be gotten rid of, I'll pass.

Agreed. But in all fairness I'm trying to imagine somebody telling me "how about we make a game, and it will feel exactly like you were in Das Boot!" I'd probably say something like "sure! I love that movie!"
I think the problem was it didn't come out quite like they imagined it would :06:
Might make a poll asking if SH5 feels like Das Boot/a movie, that may be interesting...

edit: poll not pole

I,ve just recently come back to these forums and considering getting SH5. I was a huge fan of SH3 with the GWX.

Just curious, what the hell is DRM???????
How does it affect the game etc????????

As I recall, if you go way back to the posts where Elanaiba defends the design decisions made during development and posted just before and shortly after release you will see that Das Boot the movie, loomed large in the game's developmental process.

Whether they captured the flavour of the book or movie with the finished product or not is irrelevant now but if the movie/novel did drive aspects of SH5 they have forfeited any claims to having produced a historically valid submarine simulation regardless of how pretty it might look or how slick the GUI might be, in my considered opinion that is.

Using a work of fiction as a template has to result in a work of fiction in the end.

I know one thing for sure , a lot more people will buy SH5 when TheDarkWraith gets his AI mod up .

It stands for Digital Rights Management, and it's the way game companies put their stamp on their products in an attempt to reduce or stop piracy.

SH3 had Starforce, which some of us never noticed and others had destroy their DVD drives.

SH4 had SecureRom, which was different but similar.

SH5 has a system whereby the game needs to be checked from time to time by the UBISoft servers, so you must be online at all times to play the game. There are a few who have reported problems, as sometimes the servers go down and no one can play, but those have been rare and most owners of the game are reporting little or no problem.

Many of us have refused to buy the game, in part because some have bad internet connections or none at all, and some want to play while they travel, or a variety of other reasons. Most of us who have refused to buy it do so because we consider the system to be tyrannical and oppressive.

So now you know.

Nope, No, Nada!
 

buck, buck, cackle-NOT ME, peeped the little red hen.

I kind of agree with you, but I wanted to leave another comment regarding your 2nd last sentence. In fact, the idea of requiring the human component to create the ultimate last bit of immersion (the cherry on the cake) that may or may not have been missing for some in AoD, SHIII, or SHIV, is indeed not all that bad.

However, the execution was little devoted (and funded), i.e. obviously but a few dialogues, no character development as a function of player performance and war progress, and no death/replacements/crew changes etc..
Further, I think (and vide infra I recognized similar things in other hardcore simulations, and games like WITP-AE), such simulations and strategy games have meanwhile come a long way and are becoming detailed to the limit of completeness.

However, one should start to question whether players primarily want to fight submarine warfare, see the effect of their efforts and patrols, and get medals or compete with historical aces, or whether they want to enjoy as much time out at see, walking through the boat, chatting, sun-bathing on deck etc between the battles. For me it comes down to the fighting, and anything in between is nice as an option, and I would surely spent a few minutes now and then walking around, but other than that I call it unnecessary micromanagement since it (unlike the old crew station assignment duty etc) has no real effect. If they had wanted to bridge both worlds, they would have designed it optional: some take the time to climb down the ladder, others press a key and then hear the captain make his automatic steps down while already bent over the map, like in good old times.

Maybe with all the rich detail recently, the focus of games has become a bit too blurry and instead of polishing up the core idea of a game (the submarine campaign, for example adding a strategic layer or real wolfpack action), micromanagement is becoming more of a problem rather than an addition.

Here is the lost version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaBwO...os=l3K4XVYDYbg