And that's the problem here! Newer and softer laws are made to distance this country further and further away from it's original constitutional format. Loophole justice is what it's called because these newer laws need "interpretation". What's interpretation? Simple. Somebody's way of finding a loophole to appease somebody else to get them what they want - usually a handout.

Imagine for a moment if today's problems happened during our founding forefather's time. Do you think they'd sit on their own two hands and do nothing about it? Nope. They would have slaughtered off these people without mercy to ensure that "Americans" and their interests were well protected.

While some of our founding forefathers were quoted as not being happy about slavery, they found it to be necessary and even constitutionally endorsed it just to keep this country from floundering. The point I'm making here is that sometimes people have to make tough choices and do what you and others may think is wrong or even cruel, but it's for your own good that it's done because if these tough decisions weren't made, you wouldn't even be here right now. :03:

nuttier than a sack of almonds

At least I've got nuts! :haha:

You don't recognize sarcasm when you see it. Tribesman was overstating the other side's case to emphasize the point.

As to your last post, you have no idea what you are talking about, from the founders' attitudes toward immigration to their widely varying attitudes toward slavery. You seem to have been raised in a very narrow climate, and take what you were fed to be the absolute truth.

You completely missed Platapus's point. You are the 'domestic enemy' he was talking about. You are a much greater danger to America and to freedom than any foreigner in this country, legal or otherwise.

Narrow Climate? WTF? Um, hello! They are CRIMINALS... And you expect me to sympathize for them being here illegally? Get real! You're obviously living in a cave and have no idea of the damage these people are doing to your fellow countrymen. You're way out of touch!


Furthermore, I'd like to state that I'm the ONLY ONE that's offered any form of solution to the problem in this thread. It might not be the answer you're looking for, but it's an answer nonetheless. We need people in power that have the balls to make decisions - not beat around the bush about making them because they worry about what other may think. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. But I'd rather see someone do the wrong thing then do nothing at all. At least it's an effort and shows the world that the problem was serious enough for somebody to make a decision to take some form of action.

Yes, they are criminals, and they need to be treated as such, within the law. You have advocated open murder rather than using the law, and that makes you as anti-American as a person can get.

WHO HERE IS FROM ARIZONA??????????

Let me enlighten some of you on what MY STATE is suffering from.

Overburdened health system, Illegals having babies that don't have any insurance so the Arizona taxpayers foot the bill. not just for the initial birth but for years because this child, being born here, is a U.S. is a citizen.

Overburdened school system, even the children who are not citizens go to public school and have to be taught English, more taxpayer money for these classes.

Despite attempts to curtail hiring of Illegals there are still loopholes in the laws so many employers pay them cash, no money for the state in taxes, and even if they do get a paycheck they claim so many dependents they have little or no taxes taken out of there checks. Some even file tax returns and get refunds.

Now since the state of Arizona is going broke from supporting Illegals, things get even worse. My own firsthand experience is I am a Residential Carpenter running a 5 man crew for a small Framing company, 2 years ago I was making $25 an hour plus bonuses, thanks to the greed of whoever you want to blame here, the bubble burst. Luckily after doing this type of work for over 25 years I kinda sensed a train wreck coming, to much to fast. So we are not to bad off at the moment.

Now today I have had to cut my wages to $15 an hour and no bonuses. I have not had a new home to frame in over a month, my company does not hire illegals and keeps everything by the book. Now there are other framing companies, along with all the other trades, who use loopholes and piece crews and pay them cash which drove everybody's wages into the dirt.

Example Illegal wants to work, gets hired by devious company that agrees to pay him say $14 dollars cash an hour, payday rolls around boss hands Illegal $100 cash, Illegal has no legal recourse and accepts the money and keeps working cause he has a family to support. Even if he quits there a others to take his place. This has killed my Trade in Arizona. Our company cannot compete with this type of business practice. So out of over 25 crews 3 years ago I am 1 of 3 left, and plan on turning in my company truck in the next couple weeks.

Civil rights and racial profiling, Give me A F###### BREAK, Simple not a citizen of the U.S. no civil rights. Racial profiling, As a long haired construction worker I run the risk of getting profiled more than a dark skinned person, so please lets not even start with that profiling B.S.

So without setting foot into this political soup you all have going, I'm going to say this. GREED is killing Arizona along with Liberal thinking. The media has made it seem the police are going to do door to door searches, pull anybody over that looks to hispanic or whatever. Business owners trying to survive this mess we have created and make a few dollars so they can go boating on the weekend, while so many citizens are losing their homes and cannot get any assistance from the State because they make $100 to much a month to get public assistance, but if your Illegal and make cash and have children here legally you can get all kinds of medical and food stamp help. I know allot of folks in bad situations and it sucks cause there is so little I can do to help.

I think the president of Mexico said it would be an act of war if we sent our troops to the border.

Just my nickels worth, course I could give a dollars worth, but its time to get off the Soapbox, cause this stuff really P###### me off.

YES! Within the law. That's why I said NEW LAWS need to be passed so that it can be done within the law! SHEESH!!

And NO, I've never said mow them down in the streets. I've advocated for tougher laws that make it a crime worthy of a quick death. No spending 20+ years on death row wasting tax payer dollars. They should be tried, convicted, and sentenced to death if they are guilty. I'm not advocating for Joe Blow to go around shooting suspected illegals.

I hear ya brother! Action needs to be taken. No more pussy-footing around! :yeah:

Setting the record straight here, Killing people here is not a solution, keeping them from entering the country Illegally is, arresting and deporting those here is a solution.

Arizona is just trying to defend itself since the federal government has failed to deal with the problem, even our own former governor now the secretary of homeland security has done nothing for us. So the solution is to give the police the right to arrest these people. In all honesty the law has not even gone into effect yet and the number of Illegals has gone way down. So this has become a bit of a solution, we just need the border locked up tighter.

Agreed.

And what do you do about the ones that refuse to leave and the ones that come back again and again? You do realize that the US taxpayer has to foot the bill for the trials, the incarceration time (food, clothing, shelter, medicine), all the deportation flights and these same people keep coming back again and again and again?

Maybe if we deported them to the moon where's there's no air to breath? :hmmm:

I'm telling you. Death is the only way the US can fix this problem. Like I've said before. Gangrene has set in at this point from years and years of the federal government neglecting to enforce the law. The country is going to have to wear egg on its face for a quite a long time and man up and do what needs to be done here to save what little we have left. Give these people fair trials at taxpayer expense. If they are found guilty then they need to be sentenced to death. Simple as that. I'm thinking most of them wouldn't stay around long enough to test the system if that's how it worked.

First off there is no trial, they get shipped home. What needs to happen is the border needs to be LOCKED DOWN SO THEY CANNOT RETURN.

I do not agree with them being here illegally and I am not a liberal, but if you had a choice of making $10 a week or $100 a week, you would choose the $100. Now if you had to face the risk of dying in the desert to get to this type of money to support your family, would you? This is what you are up against, people who have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

So ask yourself Would you risk death for a better life for your family?

No, I wouldn't. I'd take the steps necessary to do things the legal way to get moved into the US. If I couldn't respect a nations laws prior to going there, I shouldn't go there to begin with! People act like it's so hard to do this when it's really not. The reasons they don't go through the proper channels are...

A) Laziness! "Why should I, they aren't going to do crap about it anyways."

B) Criminally minded! "It's pretty hard to stay undetected in the US if I do things the legal way. I need to keep a low profile to sell my drugs."

C) Criminally labeled! "I can't go through the legal channels because I have been convicted of child molestation. They'll never except me with that on my record! I'll just have to break in some other way to get at those yummy 12 year olds!"

D) Scam artist! If I go to America illegally I can work and get out of paying taxes. I also get free health care and legal protection if they ever catch me. I've got a 50/50 chance in court anyways. What do I have to lose? Nothing.

E) Conquering minded! "If we all infiltrate America, they will have no other choice but to accept us eventually. We'll outnumber them! After all, they are against killing illegal immigrants so all we have to do is keep coming back if they catch us. Eventually their whole system will fall because there's only so much money they can afford to spend on this and we're like cockroaches! We just keep coming back again and again no matter how many times they try to sweep us away. They haven't gotten smart and resorted to extermination tactics to ensure we won't be back. Once America falls, Mexico will meet Canada!
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You're going to have to offer them a trial though. As someone else pointed out, they have some rights and a fair trial is one of them. They have the right to be heard. But if they are found guilty, I think everyone should have the right to hear them scream!