with saying that "future generations have to pay back", I liked to say that the debts from today are the interest of tomorrow. at some stage the interest and compound interest cannot be paid back (exponential curve!).
there is only one way to disencumber: reform of currency (which is compulsory of property in its true sense)

@KL-alfman
@Happy Times

My thoughts on this matter, and by extension, many other issues, are much in sync with yours.

Here's a link that lists the debt status of all nations, as compared to GDP:

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/ec...bt-by-country/

Even the world debt is listed as negative, compared to GDP.
Translation = There isn't enough money in the world to EVER repay these debts.
Translation 2 = Mr Rothschild, Mr Rockefella, and company, own the national economies of every nation on earth.

For the northern lands, the EU is a loose loose deal, both in terms of economics, and ultimately freedom and self preservation.

frightening figures! :cry:

I cant see Germany leaving the EU. Here is my take as a Canadian.

Looking at it from an historical perspective, let's not forget that the main political impetus which drove the creation of the EU after 1945 was to prevent a repeat of WW1 and WW2. France and Germany were the driving force behind the EU and are still the principal partners. If Germany leaves, the EU falls apart.

For a long time after 1945, German foreign policy was hobbled by guilt over WW2. That is now changing and Germany is finally taking its place on the world stage commensurate with its economic power. However German politicians, even when they throw their weight around, as Merkel did in the negotiations with Greece, are always careful to portray themselves as acting in the best interest of Europe. They do not want to be seen as acting too much on a Germany first agenda which would raise the ghosts of the old 19th-20th century nationalisms.

So I can see Germany taking on an increasingly leading role in the EU and negotiating a better deal for themselves, as well as cracking the whip on all the deadbeats, like Greece, but leave the EU first and risk seeing the entire EU fall apart? I just can't see it.

The madness spreads: http://www.smh.com.au/business/madne...0505-u8p2.html

:dead: :dead: :dead: They will not stop before they have destroyed it all. According to reports by German papers Süddeutsche Zeitung and Financial Times Germany, a clause has been established that includes that in the future every nation of the eurozone that must pay higher interests rates on capital markets can demand to be compensated for these additonal costs - by those nations paying fewer interest rates and are net givers. It also has been decided that such nations can stop to pay back credits. Upcoming paybacks of credit tranches will be payed back by all others, but not the debtor then.

Holy cow.

This is completely uncalculatable a risk, and it will multiply the payments for Germany.

The Euro is dead rubber now. The monetary union is not worth that name, it is just a transfer union now.

Meine Fresse. :nope:

The markets will be opening and it doesnt look good.

Nothing seems to work, the faith is gone in the market for Southern Europe and Euro, next in line could be UK and US.

The most stable Eurozone countries Germany, Netherlands and Finland have to run like hell, not pay for this mess.

We will suffer badly still but less than with paying for this.
Total bill with these policies could be 500 billion for Germany and 30 billion for Finland.:dead:

The finance ministers are meeting to discuss and implement a "security mechanism" that should ensure that in the future no Euro-nations go bancrupt. yesterday that included guarantees for credits worth sixty billion. Today, it already has climbed to six-hundred billion, and another assurance that the others will pay and bail out the bancruptcy candidates.

This now is the even official admission that the stability criterions have been abandoned completely, and that the Maastricht treaty in its regulations for enforcing currency stability have been completely given up. the euro is no longer a stabile, trustworthy cuirrency (if it ever was, the mistakes go more than 12 years back in time, when accepting Italy, Belgium, and later Greece into the Eurozone).

The independence of the ECB also is history now.

This all together is an invitation for even more speculators' attacks to bid on the bancruptcy of nations. the finance ministers just have agreed that ongoing attacks will be rewarded - by printing more debt money, and pushing up inflation that way, as a side-effect.

From worse to worst. And these idiots even dare to call it "stabilisation". I call it selfdestruction, and maximising damages just for keeping alive the self-deception just a little bit longer before the pot explodes into our faces with even more power.

Take me by the word - this all will create another finance crisis and economy crisis quite soon that will be even greater in scale than the one that - misleadingly - is said to just have been left behind. This time it will be made not in the US, but the EU.

Euro madness on the way. US banks still dying from the last quake. Chinese bubble building going on. British debts and deficit crisis developing. US credit card crisis mounting. Spain, Italy, Portugal. Private banking sector still attacks common interests and turns the market into a battlefield, Anglosaxon banks aiming at both the Euro and European nations, to bring both down.

Several countdowns ticking at the same time. Everybody dig yourself a deep, deep hole and take cover.

I doubt that Germany would pull out of the EU, since there is a lot of good things that come from being in it. I can, however, see them leaving the Euro, and the Euro being scrapped totally, within the next 5-10 years.

750 billion now. Explicit German demands to leave most of that ammount to bilateral credits between states outside any EU regulated context, have been crushed by European nations - especially those being at risk. What a surrpise. Merkel says she had no other choice than to agree to this, finally. May I ask who held a weapon at her head, making her nodding with it?

Merkel already said that "We will defend the Euro, at all costs".

Well, Frau Merkel, right that is the problem.

Well there goes Germany taking it in the shorts again for someone else's problem. Maybe it's time to grease those German war machine gears again and take over Europe. Probably be done in a few weeks. U.S. is too busy elsewhere everyone else too poor or lazy to defend against.

Im not saying bring out the swastikas and start chanting better dead than red again. No, just usher in some of that good old fashion German order and discipline and good work ethic to greater germany ummm i mean, europe. right? lol