To quote a (former) Englishman (a colonial, but a British subject none the less):

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." (to W. S. Smith, B.12.356)



In general, when Americans here in this forum seem stridently in favor of small government at all costs, it dates to the same author as the first above:

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." (to Archibald Stuart, B.22.436)

Gotta love Jefferson.

Adams made observations that match the apathy you see today, actually:

"In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress."

Great words of wisdom....I don't see our one eyed goblin echoing :nope:

That's true. The idea of a truly representative government and the ideals of the Constitution are very central to American culture, despite the fact that they have been used against us to get us to vote for the same kind of twits that you're so dissatisfied with, and that we still can't seem to come to a consensus on what those ideals are.

In the meantime, I want to call you Brits out for being a terrible parent nation. We based a lot of our national identity on your common law system and your government, and look where we are now! Nobody likes this system!

Quite frankly, you've also been very rude for the past couple of centuries. You never call unless you need our help in a war with Germany, and the last time you visited us you burned our capital down.... back when the thing was actually working. Now, though, I guess you can't be bothered. There was also that very nice civil war we had, and you didn't even attend, despite our invitation.

True, you've been helping us out in the War on Terror, but I feel like you guys are holding back. What happened to the magnificent world-dominating empire that ruled the seas? Yeah, you'll lead the world economically and politically until a bunch of unruly colonists try to follow your example, and then you suddenly can't find the will or means to subjugate a bunch of militant Islamic nations? How convenient......

I'm on to you, Brits. You make us fight all your serious wars and wait for us to falter, at which point you'll build a bunch of boats that are bigger than anyone else's with suitably glorious-sounding names and bring soldiers to our shores so you can tax our tea! It's always about the tea with you imperialist redcoats!

Not on my watch, you filthy loyalists! We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but only as long as these rights are threatened by an oppressive crown! We are perfectly capable of oppressing ourselves, thank you very much! :DL

Nice one James...you nearly had me 'going' during the course of your post on more than one occasion :DL

Well, this used to be an interesting thread...

I'm actually interested in your take on the elections since like most Americans I find the parliamentary system you have more confusing than direct elections. Feel free to post substance to keep us n track. Sorry if I took it OT.

<S>

tater

:har: Well said UnderseaLcpl, still, it was us or the French I guess :haha:

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/u..._400/foh22.jpg

The war of Tea Liberation will come...don't you worry... :03:

And tater, those quotes are spot on mate, and I dare say there will come a time in the future when something will give and the British system will receive a well needed kick up the backside, but I can't see it taking place unless something particularly drastic occurs. :03:

Vote for me...at least you'll know who your voting for.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8...rdonbrown3.jpg

I heard on the radio today a German study of EU laws & regulations is now 80% throughout Europe! We give £40 million a day to the EU and its walks over us, get out of the EU I say.

Another sad fact folks 70% of the new candidates are career politicians, that means they don't give a stuff about you and I.

The way things are going the masses are going to sit on there asses and let them ride rush shot over us. :nope:

Time for the 3rd civil war?

Jim - pretend for a second that I could vote in the elections.

Tell me - and everyone else - why you should get our vote instead someone else.

Doesn't matter who the someone else is - or their views - convince us on the merits of your own ideas of where your government should go. Speak issues instead of being worried about the twits there now.

What issues do you think are most pressing for your country?

What solutions would you support in solving them?

Good question but difficult to answer comprehensively because of all the problems in todays society.

I'll attempt to scratch the surface on a few.

EU: Britain is one of the biggest financial contributors yet is in the lower half of the league table when it comes to financial returns.......Time to either pro rata/balance the inequality or better still, pull out of the EU seeing as how we have always been an island state/nation. The EU would always have to trade with us or see its position considerably weakened and face a strengthened/bullying position from the other two big players, namely France and Germany. Britain has always been a counterbalance/irritant to them in the eyes of the smaller countries.

Give the British people what they were promised, a referendum on continuing our EU membership or otherwise. Any party doing that will gain considerably at the ballot box.

It is noticeable that neither party are that keen on the idea because it is a well known fact that the British people would vote to withdraw our membership.

Make of that what you will 'both parties'

Immigration: For too long we have allowed almost unlimited access to our country. We are now in recession and I think it is time to replicate something similar to the Australian system....you can enter if you have a job and a skill that is in demand. You must be self supporting financially.

Benefits System: This needs a massive overhaul, it is not right that people paying into the system are denied any help purely on 'means tested' grounds. Contributions should also be considered.

Many never have and never will pay anything into the system and receive the help they are rightfully entitled to, but surely a token amount for those who have helped fill the pot is more equitable.

Central Goverment Funding: How can it be right that public services are being closed down due to lack of funding whilst billions sre being lavished on some of the top earners in the country after they have failed miserably in their jobs.

As an example....the government now holds an 83% stake in Royal Bank of Scotland and 43% in Lloyds Bank et al. Millions continue to be payed out in bonuses out of that tax payers money at the expense of vitally needed public services.

Better to have nationalised the banks that were failing and let the people (through the exchequor) reap the dividends of future profits.

I think I'll stop there....after all, politics and religion have caused many a wr in the past :DL

Some good points there jim.

Who is to blame for the recession? Gordon Brown for taking the banking regulations away when he was chancellor which resulted in banks doing as they will. Alan Sugar said before the bubble burst this is ridicules and it just can not keep going on. Vince Cable Liberal MP predicted this mess and no one bat a eye. Should the banks who caused this mess gone to the wall? I say yes they should have, the result would have shown the rest you had your day and we the people are not standing for it anymore.


The problem we have is too few people in this country can see what is going on, the rest don't give a toss or just plain lazy.

NETWORK

A great scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGIY5Vyj4YM

Yep...remember it well :yeah:

When you put that in the cold light of today the news reader has a damn good point, if people can not do one simple thing then Parliament will do what it pleases.