Yeah, that's all I wanted to point out. It's good to know the real definitions of words and not be lulled into the "soft language" crowd where definitions are matters of personal opinion and mood.

If you really want to get abstract, you could consider software piracy theft if you were to construct the idea of "uniqueness." Say there was only 1 copy of Microsoft Office in the world, and is therefore unique. If you were to pirate that product by making a copy then the product is less unique since there are 2 copies now. In a way there was "theft of uniqueness" as the owner had 100% uniqueness and now only 50% uniqueness. It would be theft since the software pirate stole (permanently removing from the original owner) uniqueness. I suppose you could replace the word "uniqueness" with "rarity."

If you're talking about the USA:

DMCA 1998, Title 3.

Backups are effectively such computer maintenance.

Actually Bioshock 2 requires a one-time internet connection and NOT a constant connection. It uses SecuROM which has it's share of detractors but is far less intrusive than Ubi's version. Yes it checks to see if there's a disc in the drive but I can live with that.

Here's the link to 2K games press release about "scaling back" SecuROM DRM for Bioshock 2. Mainly they increased the number of installations from 5 to 15 which should ease the concerns about installing after hardware upgrades:

http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture...mupdatescaling

An increase of 10 installs, big deal, there should not be any limit whatsoever. You've paid for the product, yet some corporate ass is telling you how many times you can install it? Bloody outrageous! It's no wonder PC games are a rarity in shops these days, who wants to buy what equates to a rental product? Hell, I know I don't.

As long as companies continue to shove increasingly restrictive DRM in my face, I will avoid said games, it's not as if I haven't got enough to play through already!

Hi Nigeis, haven't talked in a while. So we may as well have a word war. :har:

Ok, as I read your statement you are implying I have suffered no loss, therefore it is not theft. Again I go back to "it depends on where you live." (I am still trying to figure out how to steal a copy of a wide screen TV and leave the original in place :hmmm:......but I digress)
If my neighbor taps into the cable TV line, I have suffered no loss, the cable company has suffered no loss....BUT it is considered "Theft of Services" at least here. So theft takes on several different meanings.
I am sure in this computer age they have come up with specific laws and terms to apply, so they may use a more specific charge.

But even using the definitions I posted, you need to be a lawyer. Theft is often synonymous with larceny, Larceny is similar to burglary and burglary is entering a building to commit a theft.....didn't we just go in a compete circle?

So usually theft involves "tangible" property and on that point I agree with what you say, and think that the "theft" would actually be a Copyright infringement. Which in my opinion would be much worse for the Pirate to have to deal with, rather than theft. For theft of software at the level of a game would deal with basically the cost of the game, while Copyright Infringement and a good lawyer could be millions of dollars and jail time. So I think you would be better off stealing my TV rather than pirating my game.



Peabody

Piracy is the popular term for the illegal activity that is more correctly known as Copyright Infringement. Software piracy involves the violation of license agreements and occurs when you download, copy, fileshare, install, or distribute digitized material in the form of computer software programs and entertainment media without authorization from the owner/creator.

License Not Ownership

The purchase of a computer program or any form of entertainment or artistic expression on any type of media that includes, but is not limited to, CD, DVD, mp3 file, video, or audiotape, simply gives you a license to use your personal copy; purchase does not constitute ownership of the “intellectual property” on the media. The U.S. Copyright Act expressly protects the intellectual property contained on these media and grants the creators exclusive rights to copy, adapt, distribute, rent, and publicly perform and display their works.
Reasonable people would agree that shoplifting any of these products in stores is theft, yet some don't extend that logic to digitized formats. But when you use your personal copy for any purpose beyond what is expressly permitted by the license, you could be committing a federal offense and may be subject to civil and criminal prosecution (see below) as well as university disciplinary action.


Fines and Penalties


What happens when you get charged with software piracy? If a single user gets caught with a pirated copy, chances are you will be hit with a request for damages amounting to three times the retail amount. This has become an arbitrary industry standard. You can also be charged for the full retail amount of each individual product in a software bundle. The maximum penalty under the law is a $250,000 fine and five years in jail, but the law allows for more in extreme cases of software piracy.

Nice. So what if we all take a copy of Assassin's Creed II, no one pays for it? That's it, from now on no one buys any game, we all just duplicate the leaked gold and no one loses. Now you will argue that's unrealistic, but it's easy to defend the burglar who only takes a copy.

This reminds me of when I was in a union. When negotiations were breaking down and a strike loomed, there were always a few scabs who announced they would cross the picket line. Fine, then we should call of the strike and all go back. Why should we undergo hardships to get a better concession from the company if Joe Scab is not going to stand with us?

I don't understand why everyone thinks someone else is going to foot the bill for their pleasure. Has the entitlement mentaility really reached this level?

I think a bit more of this might dissuade a few people...

The sad thing is, the guy allegedly bought the copy legally, albeit a week before release (the retailer inadvertantly put it on the shelf). He succumbed to peer pressure by u/l it to prove he had it. And apparently it wasn't even cracked - it took someone else to find it on the 'net and crack it. The rest, as they say, is history...

That does need to happen more often..

The technology is out there, to trace and get these pirates. Why big corporations don't do anything to the people who actually DO IT, I don't know :down:

My guess is 90% of people that day they won't buy it...will. That's usually the case and what they're counting on.

I'll probably buy it down the road after a patch or two, unless complaints are really bad, but I'm a Fleetboat man, so no big deal to me.

I can't wait to read all the post of all those that said they wouldn't buy it after the first few days it's released.

:yeah::rock:

:rotfl2:

he gave in to pressure, to prove he had it.
stupid bugger...

He should have just taken a picture of the box and uploaded that. :haha:

or get his wife to capture a hires photo of him playing it... or a screenshot like Neal did...

geez some people.

To be honest, i wish there were more stupid pirates like that.

Absolutely agree with you Neal. We were just discussing whether or not "technically" or maybe more accurate, "legally", is pirating considered "theft" in the eyes of the law. Nisgeis felt it is not and I agree that is usually is not, it is actually much, much WORSE than theft, it is copyright infringement, which can get you into much more trouble than theft. But the definition of theft is different around the world.

I think most people would consider it wrong and probably even consider it theft, but they would find out real quick the difference if they get caught with a pirated copy of a game that it is not the same as theft of my Milky Way candy bar.

So it was just a discussion of the legal term "theft".

Peabody

That's what UK law says as well, but you don't own the game, you only have a license to use it. So, how do you stand in the eyes of the law then?

OK, I think I've worked something where the mis-communication is. I was just saying that piracy isn't theft, it's copyright infringement and some people objected to this. I think, and I may be wrong, it's because people are outraged by piracy and want to see the pirates punished, so they see it as the 'harsher' crime of theft and refer to it as theft, as it seems more serious.

The thing is though, that (and this is UK law) the maximum sentence for theft is seven years and that's for a major heist. The maximum sentence for copyright infringement is ten years and an unlimitted fine. It means unlimitted too, not like broadband download unlimitted. If you are charged with copyright infringement, then you face jail and having to payout for the damage you caused (I'm not really sure on how people pay back fines). So perhaps people don't see 'copyright infringement' as a serious crime, or a crime without victims (like shoplifting)? That's why they want to call it theft not copyright infringement, because copyright infringement sounds fluffy compared to theft.

Piracy is damaging to the gaming industry and also the retail industry (for the bricks and mortar shops where you buy them). I don't think anyone is saying that it isn't damaging, apart from the theory of 'word of mouth' recommendations from those that have pirated a game being a benefit. But I think we can all agree that if there were no piracy, then a portion of those that would have pirated the game will now buy it instead, increasing sales figures.

All of the costs of piracy are, under law, recoverable from the people responsible for uploading the games. I'm no expert, but I think the software companies would be better served by going after the people who uploaded the game, who got it from the person who worked at the game company. Then they'd be getting their losses back. They tracked down the guy who cracked the DVD encoding, so why not for games? If piracy really is costing ten sales for every copy bought, then for SH3, which sold 90k in the US, then that's US $36,000,000 claimed in lost 'revenue'. Couldn't they be tracked down with that sort of cash? Unless the figures are nowhere near that. Let's say one pirate copy for one sold, that's still US $3.6 million and just for the US alone and for a niche game like a subsim. Still a nice chunk of change to go investigating with. Why not offer a reward - US $1 million reward for turning in a cracker.

Yep, much worse. By the way Peabody, I think I would be better off with your TV. Leave the remote next it yeah? Thanks!

You do actually own the game; the game being the use of the software. All licensing says is that you don't own the software's underlying design. "Use" is still a product and is just as protected as if it was a toaster or a car.