SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - Germany embarks on total and complete ban of killer games

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- - Germany embarks on total and complete ban of killer games (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=152461)

What luck that I live in Austria!

Killer games are fun, but to some people..it just goes straight to their head and they actually would enjoy doing the same thing in real life. But, you never know who that is going to be or where someone is going to be shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly (Post 1112781)

Piracy rates will go thru the roof in Germany, that's for sure. :har:

Exactly. There goes the last of the moral qualms anybody will have against just BTing said "killer games" for free on the Internet - you can't even say some hard working game maker's livelihood is being threatened, because he can't sell the game in Germany anyway...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

It means nothing, since there is zero statistical anaylsis given on forming a link between the two. In the nineties, I did shave off my beared. Maybe this made crime rates going so and so, up or down, and it contributed to the video games scene to make suczh and such kind of games?

We all know statistics aren't perfect (especially crime stats that depend on a wide, layered variety of assumptions), but at least he offered something on his side within this thread, which is better than what you did.

Now, outlining the general topic at hand:

In utilitarian terms, this measure involves a 100% probability of negatively affecting the interests of a significant percentage of the population for a vague possibility of positively affecting an insignificant percentage of the population (however many school shootings show up in the news, as a percentage of the student body the number is insignificant - we won't be living in the same world if it did).

On the Plus side, while it would be a real groaner for our Violent Game Players, the deaths caused by school shootings obviously have a much higher value than the displeasure of our game players. Still, even THOSE would be such an insignificant percentage that it is hard to believe the math would wind up favoring this measure.

Even generously assuming that this measure will eliminate further school shootings, it will be an upward climb to justify in the face of the sheer disparity in affected percentages.

To further add to that is the fact that thanks to BT, this measure would be nearly ineffective against Violent Game Players. It is just like an anti-gun law, except the proliferation of BT is much higher than illegal guns. In the end, only the most law-abiding segment (thus least likely to commit crime) guys will actually get hurt.

Sure, you can add anti-BT measures and all that to try and put a stop to it, now you are just pouring into the Loss side of the ledger. In short, any way you cut it, the actual balance will be nearly ZERO gain for definite loss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II (Post 1114046)

You are wrong. Its better not to post any statistics that are porked, than to post statistics that are porked (and then say that would be better than nothing). Because the latter is actively misleading, while the first simply does not make any statement.

And I posted that old reply in reference to the obviously manipulative graph construction with the game covers in it by Mookie, since it is not clear to me wether that was meant as a joke, or for real.

Flawed data is better than no data? You must be kidding. It can even do greater damage than no data.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 1114095)

That's true, but for that to be so, you'll have to SHOW it is flawed. The datasource clearly has an agenda, but that's far from showing it is flawed.

The chart obviously cannot prove that Violent Video Games reduce crime. But as far as I can see MM never said it was meant to do that. It IS enough to strike a blow (though not a knockout) at people who want to claim the other direction, by showing that if anything, the data seems to be in the inverse direction.

You are about data quality. I am about a basic flaw in methodology. I would need to show the data is flawed if there is a causal link between the two variables in that graph. But in fact the graph is not even expressing a correlation, which in itsaelf also does not express a cuasal link. It simply is a suggestive picture claiming an opinion by trying to give a false impression of being solid data.

Let's stop this useless debate over nothing that would be worth the effort. I think it is absolutely clear what I point at.

Violent video games came about because there was a market for them. We are a violent society. We like to play these games. I do not believe violent games breed killers, but allow people to "vent" or blow off steam, which is healthy.

Our society has become more violent and it would have become so with or with out any video games.

The odd duck who goes postal and kills a bunch of people is just an abnormality of society and if there continues to be more and more of them they just represent a growing violent society as a whole.

Personal opinion here with no data to back this up. It is just what I believe.

Game of the Year, Germany 2009! :woot:

http://www.gamersfactory.com/ImageVi...x?ImageID=4298

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet (Post 1112849)

skybird... i would spend less time blaming violent movies and video games and more time concentrating on the social life of the youth in question.

As a kid, i watched R-Rated movies like Alien, Predator, all the nightmare on elm street flicks etc - some of those films i watched as early as 6 years old.

furthermore, as soon as video games were a hot item, i played all the violent ones... some were cool, some sucked, some you were just randomly wasting people with a shot gun.

through 6th 7th and 8th grade i was teased without mercy by a group of mouth breathers sometimes to the point of serious public humiliation in front of the whole school.

I grew up in a pro-gun home, i was an experienced hunter, shooter, marksman etc even at the age of 12-13 years old i was no stranger to any of the 70 some odd firearms in my home ranging from .22 pistols, to .45s to semi automatic shotguns to fully automatic weapons.

to say the least i was a pressure cooker - a perfect recipe for a school massacre - i had the means to pull it off - i had the capability - i had the proper motive everything had fallen into place except for one small series of things...

my parents gave me a happy home, we ate dinners at night together - usually - we went to the movies together and vacations together.

through it all i had a couple of best friends who were blind to the taunting i received at school, and who always made me feel welcomed and cared for no matter the circumstances.

fortunately as high school started i grew out of the awkward stage of life as most youths do, the teasing and taunting ended and before anyone knew it i was just another one of the "in crowd".

so despite having exposure to violent films and games, despite having the ingredients common to a kid who snaps and massacres his school - I didnt do it - and i credit that to a lot of what i mentioned above.

video games dont lead kids to kill their class mates - they target these people because 22-23 days out of any given month these people are making that kids life a literal living hell from which he has no escape. the child is usually not reached a point of maturity in life to figure out that if he blows away his teacher and class mates with a 12 gauge - thats permanent revenge... not a temporary one.

EDIT:

I guess PONG or perhaps SPACE INVADERS on the atari caused this kid to snap...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkway...chool_shooting

its no new concept that people (regardless of age) flip out and kill their peers. video games or not

Very similar for me too. I didn't go around murdering people even though I hated some. I let my fists handle that department. I had access to guns and I brought rifles and pistols to school as a halloween act for my costume. I didn't have a need to kill some one? Why? I would loose my family, my friends and my life for a stupid event? Naw.

These guys have issue from the start. There brains aren't working. Violent games give them a release but its only temporary. Something sparks there inner anger and bang they go crazy. Still there crazy from the start. Just no one saw it till it was too late. Or more realistically no one cares untill its too late.

Movies, music and games are not the triggers to mass murders. The way children are being educated, raised and there weak mental health are contributing factors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 1114349)

Game of the Year, Germany 2009! :woot:

http://www.gamersfactory.com/ImageVi...x?ImageID=4298

LOL Im no expert but I'm pretty sure that cake is bad for your hamsters. Therefore this game sets a bad example and should be banned !

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake (Post 1114776)

LOL Im no expert but I'm pretty sure that cake is bad for your hamsters. Therefore this game sets a bad example and should be banned !

Disclaimer, no animals were hurt in the making of this game.:D

I remember reading an interview with Sid Meier back in the late eighties in which he stated that the original C64 Microprose "Silent Service" game could not be sold in normal game outlets in Germany and was only available in sex shops! How times have changed.