Quote:
Originally Posted by clive bradbury
(Post 1093570)
I know, August, but what I meant was that many people who say that they are Christians are actually stating that they believe in a god, as opposed to being atheist or agnostic. To all intents and purposes they are conducting their lives in a secular manner. By that I mean that they do not practise their religion in private, either, if you see what I mean.
Perhaps I'm not explaining my point too well, but I'm talking about the sort of person who would state 'christianity' as their religion in a survey, but no more read the bible or pray than I do. Maybe different in the US, as I stated at the start of my argument above, but that is very common over here. The main point being that religion does not play an active part in their lives, nor do they see it as a part of who they are as people. Obviously I am generalising, but do you see the idea?
What this means is that to view the number of Christians in the UK, as measured by the National Census, for example, is actually overstating the real numbers in practice (in both senses of that word), to the extent that the secularisation of the UK and Western Europe is highly likely to be far greater in reality than the statistics show.
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Unfortunetly we make the unpleasant observation in the UK, Germany, Netherlands that second and third generations in immigrant families are MORE orthodox Islamic, and at least in case of the Turks in Germany: also are more pro-nationalistic towards their family's original home country and more hostile to their hosting country. That throws a huge shadow on the stories of successfully integrating immigrants who meanwhile even have become a real memeber of our communities - these people also exist, right. But to say they are the rule and to ignore the other side means to tell only a half truth, and to ignore the unpleasant other side, because it is not wanted.
We have had even sociological studies quoted or lnked to over the recent three forum-years, showing this trend. And it is no new trend, by all means. Westerners tend to massively overestimate the changing power and convincing attraciton of Western society, especially when it comes to Islam. mayb eit would work that way if two conditions would be fulfilled: first, no new foriegners would constantly come in, constantly reviving the Islamic roots and background of Muslim communities in the West. And second, practically all Muslim countries sending their people to us to settle here, do not stay out of ourt internal politics, but massively interfere with them in order to establish strong nationalistic presences in our societies, and to prevent their people fallng to apostacy. Again, espeically Turkey is guilty of this kind of interference, and does not even hide it. erdogan'S visit to Germany and his outrageous behavior, was a scandal for which he should have been kicked out very undiplomatically.
BTW, I always thought that you abandoned the second chess match of ours, and right now wanted to pull your leg by asking for your next move. But now I checked back the old thread, and to my surprise I see that it is
me whose last move is missing. However, in my old protocol, I have entered one. Has the forum software made my reply to you disappearing, maybe during a lag when sending it (lags haunt me on this forum quite frequently, and more than just a few posting went lost that way)? Want to continue? :)
However, I apologize, since the fault seems to have been on my side, I just found out. I had no intention to abandon the match in silence and just leave you behind. Somehow the story just - disappeared from my mind.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ht=chess+match
And the earlier one, for the sake of completion.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ht=chess+match