Just making a point,
Silent Hunter 2 was an Original Great Game,
Lets hope Silent Hunter 5 is based on it,
with Destroyer Command,
Would it not make Silent Hunter 5 Awsome?:arrgh!:

I was here when SH2 came out. It was roundly slammed in the forum by many as being a failed release with it's bugginess and canned campaign game. I never thought it was quite that bad, but I remember that Sierra's Aces of the Deep was the original great game that everyone revered and worshipped back then. Happily, SH3 came along and saved the subsim franchise. :cool:

Yeah, the crashing on patrol two shelved it for me. I gave SH3 a shot and it was good out of the box. Modding made it all that much better. However, many shelved SH4 because of the bugs. Shame really, it is a great game now with the patches and mods. For the guys who dig the uboats, OM is a great mod and gets great reviews. Players should not deprive themselves of SH4 uboats with OM for the mod to use. Get into the game, get familiar with it. It is a lot of fun if you let it be a lot of fun.

Again, it is all in what you like is the best game for you.

Personally I loved SH4 from the beginning. It was clear that any problems were not deal breakers, the game actually remembered my saved games and I was off to the races. SH2, which came well after Silent Hunter and was not the original game, had a static campaign and put everyone in a straight jacket from which the Silent Hunter franchise almost never emerged.

It was only when Ubisoft hired this renegade bunch of Romanians (a bunch of former commies from a 3rd world country are going to make a sub sim? Hahahahahahaha!!!!!), which many were very cruel about, that the franchise was saved by the little group that could. SH3 is loved because it was absolutely revolutionary, just a sandbox to play in with dynamic everything. It fixed the sour looks from SH2 almost overnight and those that made fun of a Romanian development team very quickly bought pom-poms and a short skirt cheerleader outfit. They still looked ugly.

SH4 was not such a total shift of paradigm from SH3 as SH3 was from the lousy SH2. That is why it is looked upon even today with such favor. I don't believe it has a lot to do with the fact that it is about U-Boats. The Romanian dev team blew everything we thought about what a subsim was right on its ear and we've never recovered.

They are why SH3 and SH4 are the greatest submarine simulators on the surface of the planet.

That is well known about sacrifice.. I do not think of the asians as Strange, it is just how they're culture is, and they have more honor to one another than we have in the west.. Yet they lacked humanity to the nin degreee.



As for using little boy and Fat man on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, well sure we didn't have to do it... we didn't have to go liberate the small island nations japan took over either... war is all about "should we or should we not!"
The Ja[anese were preparring to go all out war to defend there homeland from a allied invasion, including women and children... I believe the atom bomb saved lives in the long run. MANY MANY lives. two cities got leveled... just imagine the number of US troops killed and even more Japanese civilians casualties/deaths.. many many millions..




I don't think France had there guard down, I mean THEY declardd war on Germany, not Germany on them.. it was France who was the aggresser.. or Should I say started the fight... they should have had thier guard up... they did battle.. it was the Blitz tactics that overwelmed France.




I see alot of people here say "Type 21 fanboy" etc and how too many people think the Type 21 was uber and all this crap on how it had lots of problems.. yes it did, but think about this. if the type 21 was over hyped and just another mediocore sub, why did the USA, France, Great Britain and Russia drop thier multi million dollar sub programs like a sack of potatos and copy the Type 21?? heck the USA, Great Britain and Russia actually took some of the actual type 21's and entered them into thier own military service.. the big 3 didn't use or copy any other sub design

The Soviet Navy is known to have operated at least four Type XXIs after the war, U-3515, U-2529, U-3035, and U-3041 which were commissioned B-27, B-28, B-29, and B-30 Experience with these boats led to the development of the Zulu and Whiskey class submarines which were operational from the early 1950s through the mid-1960s

After the war, the U.S. Navy took over two Type XXI U-boats: U-2513 - which had been commanded by U-boat ace Erich Topp - and U-3008. In August 1946 U-2513 began a complete overhaul in Charleston, South Carolina, At the end of September she traveled to Key West, Florida where she underwent six months of evaluation tests in conjunction with the development of submarine and antisubmarine tactics. The results proved the new U-boat would have revolutionized undersea warfare, and led to the development of the Greater Underwater Propulsion Power Program (GUPPY) to modernize U.S. Fleet boars because of the test results. Sent to Portsmouth, New Hampshire, U-2513 was eventually taken out of service in 1949

The Royal Navy operated U-3017 as HMS N41, while the French Navy operated U-2518 as Roland Morillot.

I know the 21's had teething problems, (esp the hydrolic system) and even in great numbers Germany was doomed anyways... they was supost to have a crush depth much over 300 meters, yet tests showed they would fail at 280 or so meters as POW manufacturing processes were not up to codes on weilding and such..
They were rushed out the door.. having the war lasted a few more months I'm sure while back in port after patrols the hulls and such would have been weilded up better and sorted out..
I know the 15 knots surfaced speed is not as good as a type 9's 20 knots... but GB, US and Russa didn't seem to mind using thme after war.. Type 9's could not go far moving 20 knots.. the type 21 with it's small engines at 15 knots would seem to be a good compromide for avg econo fuel saving speed..
it was the underwater speed than means life or death..
Hedge Hogs dropping on you from 200 meters above while moving at 8 knots probabaly will not be enough to get out of the way as those water morters sunk fast..
a Type 21 moving at 15-17 knots 200 meters down. is going to be on the other side of the planet by the time those hedge hog get 200 meters..
Speed really maters when you are trying to survive.. also it would run at top speed over twice as long... and quieter...
I belive the US, Uk, and Russian Navies thought the same things after testing it.



I could not aggree with you more my fellow sub mate.. I could add a few more not very nice words for the mowaked mushtached nutcase, but that is not what this is about..

I don't think the 21 was uber... even from the start of the war, if they had 1300 of them, it would not have changed the outcome.. only prolonged it for 1-2 years at best.... the USA's (as well as many other nations) industial power would have made enough cargo to slip by..
attacks by air by suprise would have been the same for the 21 and the 7's or 9's...
only the submerged attack and defend would have brought the ASW destroyer teams to thier knees.

I think the romantic thing about playing as a German in a simulator, is that Germany was the last nation to battle the USA (my country) with more advanced weapons systems.. since then our technoligy has prevailed and we lose little in combat..
Back them as US troop in a Sherman facing a Panther (let alone a Tiger II) is doomed, eps when he was told he was in the better equipment..
a P-51D pilot out of ammo after flamming a Fw190.. and out running anything that comes up to him, them all a suddem a Me-262 is aprouching from the rear at a 100 mph closing rate!!! This is what makes WWII so interesting.. it's not "tech" lop sided too bad, no "wish em dead" fire and forget weapons like Aim-120 AMRAM,s or Aim9's
No computerized controlled tomahawk missle shot from a Destroyer from 3000 miles to sink a battleship or Mavereck shot from an F-15 to take out a bunker... I've played these in sims and is quite borring..

men back in WWII had would be part of the machine to score, use evasion tactics to escape or "fail to escape" ..etc.

later
scotty

well well scotty, i love jokers like you, now i could pick apart piece by piece your frantic little post, but the part that strikes me the most, is what you say
about the allies not needing to nuke japan.
you know nothing of pacific combat, nothing, and combat in general.
did you know that after okinawa, as the soldiers and marines were preparing to invade japan, almost to the man they thought they were dead, that they would not survive the invasion.
you know, what i'd love to do with a guy like you with an opinion like you have is to put you in an amtrac or landing craft, and let you be the first man out on a hot beach, then i would love to see the facial expression on your face.
germany was a threat to europe, particularly england, and the english convinced america to take a europe first approach, sorry, that was a european point of view.
any american knew who the real fight was with, as they hurts us pretty good at pearl. the japanese didnt wait around two or three days listening to radio reports of
how bad pearl was before declaring war on the united states, the japanese declared war on the united states by deed, not by opportunity, understand scooty.
you kinda right about me favoring japan over germany, but in my opinion, its right, where i would pee on the swatsticka, i could salute with respect the rising sun,
and dont ever forget, how tough the germans had to be to kill those little jewish kids, and poles, and checks, and russians ,and all the other nations, in the chambers, dont forget it , cause i dont.

you ever been to a jungle scooty? you know what its like? i have. its the most hostile environment in the world, and then there are people shooting at you. you become barbaric in the jungle, you need to to survive

one more thing , did you ever hear of the 442nd rct, an all japanese american army unit, the german army did, much to thier dismay.
here is a link to enlighen you on how the japanese fought, as japanese americans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_R...al_Combat_Team

Stop right there! The US fleet boats actually outperformed the Type XXI with a simple pimp job consisting of optimizing their skin for underwater rather than surface performance in the Guppy program after the war. Yes, they looked ugly then for those of us raised on the beauty of the fleet boat, and they would have not performed as well during the war because the design would have encouraged captains to use the ostrich strategy instead of the yo-yo strategy, but they were a knot or two faster than the Type XXI both underwater and one the surface with better battery life. The US didn't need to copy the Type XXI and didn't. A guppy looks nothing like a Type XXI. The Cavalla would beat any Type XXI and IT was reliable and battle tested. Who knows what demons lurked inside the Type XXI. They never were given the chance to break.

There was never a copy of the Type XXI in the employ of the United States. We didn't need the thing.

Get your facts a little straight before you troll.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...dthetrolls.gif

Play nice all. :salute:

There is a story probably apocryphal, about a German tank commander boasting to the Americans who have just captured him that: "Our Tiger tanks are superior to ten of your Sherman tanks...the problem is you damned Americans always have eleven!" The same story would probably apply just as well to the Russian T-34.

Quantity has a quality all it's own. ;)

I really enjoyed the SHIII experience - even the bleak I'm gonna to die any time I poke my sub above the waves. But it's the SD/SJ radar advantage of the fleet boat that sold me right away. Not only could I set up great long distanced ambushes, the advance warning I recieved from air threats made me feel perfectly safe operating above the waves. I'm Definately more effective as a Gato/Balao skipper than I was in a Type VII/IX. I mean how can you not love having 6 forward torpedoes tubes and 4 aft torpedoes tubes and boat load of ordnace. My only gripe is the faulty torpedoes themselves. Trigger Maru offers a very nice challenge to the game as well.

Excellent point Surf Ten. Every time I'm in a U-Boat, I'm thinking "if I were in my fleet boat instead of this Type IX, I could do" this, that or the other thing that the U-Boat is incapable of.

But that's part of the reason for having a simulator: to compare different equipment. How many times in a fleet boat have you said "if ONLY I had that direct hookup from the TDC to the periscope that the U-Boat had." The irony here is that the fleet boats had it and it isn't modeled, but if it were a legitimate comparison of the capabilities of the two machines, you would have just learned something about the possibilities of using ingenuity to overcome the lack of technical prowess. History is full of examples of less advanced weaponry beating out "superior" foes because their warriors' ingenuity bridged the gap.

But you do right? Were did you get your pacific cambat exp from??


It is commen in war, esp back then, to think your probabaly not going to survive..

My-My..Lets not get angry heree, I will not sit here and tallk tough sitting behind a computer screen 800-2000 miles away, not going to prove anything. Lets get on the topic, not what we'd like to do to one another who dis-aggrees with our own facts (or lack of on your part).

I would not want to be there, but would do my duty if called for it..
Again, what do you know (personally) about this? Geez. sounds like you want me to be shot it.. My feelings are deeply hurt!

I'll keep this civil and no names, but I seems you have a hatered of Germans, and a love of Japan. Everyone has the right to thier own opinion.. Yet I'd pee one the Swastika as I would on the Rising sun flag.. both were evil. Something you lack understanding of.

Now that you opened the politcal can of worms and none has said anything...
Did you know the Japanese killed (torchored) more civilans than Germany. the Japanese killed 10 million chinese civilans alone.. I'm talking civilians.. thats not counting the other small defensless countires they took over and murdered the people. I don't want to hear the jewish crap, we all know it happened, and sit here and hear how we are to forget the chinese civilians who where killed off.
I can understand not liking what the germans did, but to sit here and listen to you not say anything about the netrocities Japan did, and boast about them to boot is sickning..

Yet you sit here and patrionize them. You have the forgive and forget attitude for imperial Japan and what they did, and think we all should all just put the past behind os for Japan, yet you think we should hold a grudge on Germans ... That is your thoughts, but you can't force them on others.. personally I think we are a dif world now and the HATE can't be dragged on, esp for just one evil.




But you do right? Were did you get your jungle exp from?? Don't tell me Iraq, and Vietnam is not the same as WW2... I seriously doupt you have been in WW2, so please don't act like someone else knows nothing and you do... none of us here have been there,,, I know people who have, and so maybe have you, lets keep it at that.
I have been shot at in real life if tha makes you feel better (I don't wish that same for you)... but not in militqary combat, not in the pacific either.


who cares, our debate here is te effectivness of millitary power of Japan vs Germany, or who posed the biggest threat. not bring up symphony for Japan and hate for Germany.. We both are getting of topic here.

It's over
 

What transpired in the 1930s and 1940s is over. The idiology was different then for all countries. German, after WWI had lost all national respect, thanks to the dealings of the Allies after the WWI. (There was no Marshall Plan). They were looking for a panacea to move their economy and Hitler was there at the right time. Too bad he was misguided.
Japan had ideas of empire building and Britain, with its colonialism, was a thorn is Japan's side. The opium tradeof the early 1900s, a cash cow for all the anglo countries, (Yes, USA included) created greedy robber barons in the USA and Britain. Each fought over China and wanted to open the Far East. Japan wanted Asia for Asians. Finally, unable to sustain their industial base without raw materials from the US, when FDR finally cut off oil shipments, Japan was forced to move south into the Dutch Indies. To stop the US from intervening, Yamamoto's plan to disable the Pacific fleet was adopted. That "woke the sleeping giant."
By the way, there would not have been a Viet Nam if Ho Chi Minh's plea for a unified Viet Nam had been adopted at the end of WWII. However, because the French had holdings in SE Asia, the "honorable" thing to do was to give it back to the French. Thus started "Terry and the Pirates" and all that mess. Also, when the French were defeated in 1954, the USA subsidized the effort to the tune of $1 Billion a year. Nothing ever changes. Look at today. And, by the way, I am a Viet Nam Vet. I wrote a blank check to the USA. Just glad it never was cashed. :up: Old_tex

"I would not want to be there,"

thats what i thought

"but would do my duty if called for it.."

i doubt it


"Again, what do you know (personally) about this? "

panama

"Geez. sounds like you want me to be shot it.."

nope


"My feelings are deeply hurt!"

tough!, i dont care about your feelings