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-   -   Assault weapons ban back on Obama's webpage (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=144467)

Yahoshua 11-16-08 07:13 PM

As I said:

Responsible handling

This means:
  • Being aware of where the shell is going to land and whether there are any individuals that SHOULDN'T be there
  • Being safe with the device and ensuring it is well kept and maintained
  • Ensuring that the ammunition in use is quality-made and that the production lot has no known problems
  • Hearing and eye protection are worn at all times and that no individuals are near the blast zone, recoil area, or the impact zone.
All of the above were followed and in order to even OWN the device the individual cannot even have an arrest record or more than a few(?) parking tickets!!

You absolutely have to be a UPSTANDING law-abiding citizen to get one of these items and have a spotless record.

The individual in question is NOT dangerous to anybody unless they were to abuse their rights which I seriously doubt.

Captain Vlad 11-16-08 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
Yeah, all good and fair, but like I said, there's too much that could go wrong, and does go wrong.

I have several weapons in my house. None are anywhere near as likely to kill me or anyone else as the multi-ton metal machine I drive to work every day. Come to think of it, none are as likely to kill me as my step ladder.

If we start restricting everyone based on what could go wrong, pretty soon no one will be allowed to do anything. I'll take freedom over safety, myself, or at least a balance of the two that favors freedom.

Yahoshua 11-16-08 07:18 PM

Besides, if you're concerned about "what could go wrong....." there's plenty of Darwin Awards that DON'T involve firearms.

Stealth Hunter 11-16-08 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahoshua
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight
I'm sorry but assualt weapons SHOULD be banned from public use. I mean reall. There's NOT ONE reason that the average joe public needs to have a machine gun !


Okay then. If "Assault Weapons" are to be banned, how are you going to do so in a reasonable fashion?

If you say they should be restricted to Military and LE only, then what about the Citizen Militia? Everyone in the U.S. that is between the ages of 18 and 60 is subject to being drafted by the state to form a militia corps.

What do you mean "in a reasonable fashion"? You approve a law that states assault firearms are illegal, you order anyone in possession of one to hand it over to their local police department, you file reports on the owners of the guns (for safe keeping), and you call it a day. If they refuse to hand their M16 or AK-74 over, you arrest them because they are disobeying the law.

The United States Military has plenty of weapons to go around. You don't need your own gun. I'd rather have an M4 than grandfather's 60 year old MP40.

Quote:

The militia in the days of the early post-colonial British Government had a small standing army with most communities and towns having their own militia of common citizens. Those militiamen were required to provide their own arms and clothing that were of comparable quality and caliber measurement (Ranging from .58 caliber to .70 caliber) and having at least 20 to 50 balls of ammunition and with enough powder to fire those projectiles.
The difference being it isn't 1776 and you're not a colonist or a loyalist. Great Britain doesn't own us, we have a strong military with automatic weapons and elite training, and the country hasn't been invaded since the War of 1812.

Quote:

Applying this template today (as it is framed in the 2nd amendment and was practiced in early pre/post-colonial days), this would mean that everyone who is subject to the militia draft must own: one m-16, one Beretta M92, have a uniform, at least 200 rounds of rifle ammunition, 50 rounds of pistol ammunition, have a rucksack, kevlar helmet, belt rig, and plate carrier vest in order to adequately report for duty at least once per year for training and marksmanship qualifications.

In effect, this would create the mirror image of the protocols the Swiss already have.
Nice idea, but we're not the Swiss, and we're not living under the same conditions as the people of colonial America were. We have the army for a reason. We have the air force for a reason. We have the navy for a reason. We have the marines for a reason. If we were invaded, the last thing we would need is a disorganized rabble of people running around with explosives and automatic weapons. Let the guys who are fresh out of boot camp with the training and supplies necessary deal with it.

This isn't Red Dawn, you're not Patrick Swayze, and don't plan on us being invaded anytime soon.

Quote:

But wait, there's more:

There's such a thing as the organized (state) militia, and the un-organized (irregular) militia.

How then do you diffrentiate between the two without abrogating the 2nd amendment?
I think the more important question is why do we even need a militia? Like I said, we have a military. They have the training, they have the qualifications, they have the guns. It's their job, not ours. And if worst comes to worst, then yeah, pick up a gun. Fire away. But we don't need automatic guns, we don't need howitzers, and we don't need RPGs. Bolt-action rifles, molotov cocktails, and .38s are just as capable as killing as anything else.

Stealth Hunter 11-16-08 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahoshua
As I said:

Responsible handling

This means:
  • Being aware of where the shell is going to land and whether there are any individuals that SHOULDN'T be there
  • Being safe with the device and ensuring it is well kept and maintained
  • Ensuring that the ammunition in use is quality-made and that the production lot has no known problems
  • Hearing and eye protection are worn at all times and that no individuals are near the blast zone, recoil area, or the impact zone.
All of the above were followed and in order to even OWN the device the individual cannot even have an arrest record or more than a few(?) parking tickets!!

You absolutely have to be a UPSTANDING law-abiding citizen to get one of these items and have a spotless record.

The individual in question is NOT dangerous to anybody unless they were to abuse their rights which I seriously doubt.

Regardless of all the precautions and safety measures you take, ACCIDENTS STILL HAPPEN. Get that through your head.

Stealth Hunter 11-16-08 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahoshua
Besides, if you're concerned about "what could go wrong....." there's plenty of Darwin Awards that DON'T involve firearms.

True, but firearms you can control; you can't control falling off a ladder or having a car wreck.

Stealth Hunter 11-16-08 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Vlad
If we start restricting everyone based on what could go wrong, pretty soon no one will be allowed to do anything. I'll take freedom over safety, myself, or at least a balance of the two that favors freedom.

That's complete bulls**t. You've still got plenty of freedom. Seriously, YOU DO NOT NEED A ****ING RPG, GRENADE, OR HOWITZER. A .38 Special or a .308 Sprinfield is just as deadly.

Captain Vlad 11-16-08 07:26 PM

Quote:

Regardless of all the precautions and safety measures you take, ACCIDENTS STILL HAPPEN. Get that through your head.
They happen every day, to thousands of people.

Very few of these accidents, relatively speaking, involve a firearm in any way. Since most legally obtained weapons (even, or when you get right down to it, especially, howitzers) are never used against another person, I think it's safe to say that guns aren't much of an issue when it comes to general safety.

You disagree...but you're stating an opinion that isn't backed up by fact.

August 11-16-08 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
What do you mean "in a reasonable fashion"? You approve a law that states assault firearms are illegal, you order anyone in possession of one to hand it over to their local police department, you file reports on the owners of the guns (for safe keeping), and you call it a day. If they refuse to hand their M16 or AK-74 over, you arrest them because they are disobeying the law.

So in one fell swoop you confiscate peoples legally obtained private property and turn thousands of honest people into criminals because they don't feel like surrendering their constitutional rights to the likes of you? Hell why not just drag us all out of our houses and shoot us in our front yards. Problem solved right?

Stealth Hunter 11-16-08 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Vlad
Quote:

Regardless of all the precautions and safety measures you take, ACCIDENTS STILL HAPPEN. Get that through your head.
They happen every day, to thousands of people.

Very few of these accidents, relatively speaking, involve a firearm in any way. Since most legally obtained weapons (even, or when you get right down to it, especially, howitzers) are never used against another person, I think it's safe to say that guns aren't much of an issue when it comes to general safety.

You disagree...but you're stating an opinion that isn't backed up by fact.

Firearm related incidents is what I was referring to.

And you disagree, but, likewise, no opinion constitutes a fact.

Captain Vlad 11-16-08 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
That's complete bulls**t. You've still got plenty of freedom. Seriously, YOU DO NOT NEED A ****ING RPG, GRENADE, OR HOWITZER. A .38 Special or a .308 Sprinfield is just as deadly.

Actually, it's not complete bull****, it's a fact that disarms your worries about gun safety. You have no problems with items that kill far more people than guns, yet advocate restrictions on guns instead of these other items. This is a hypocritical argument, and can therefore be safely discarded.

Stealth Hunter 11-16-08 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
What do you mean "in a reasonable fashion"? You approve a law that states assault firearms are illegal, you order anyone in possession of one to hand it over to their local police department, you file reports on the owners of the guns (for safe keeping), and you call it a day. If they refuse to hand their M16 or AK-74 over, you arrest them because they are disobeying the law.

So in one fell swoop you confiscate peoples legally obtained private property and turn thousands of honest people into criminals because they don't feel like surrendering their constitutional rights to the likes of you? Hell why not just drag us all out of our houses and shoot us in our front yards. Problem solved right?

You're not confiscating anything. The people are bound, by law, to hand over any automatic weapons. They're doing it on the own. Not doing it is a violation of the law...

How is making them hand over an automatic weapon going to turn them all into criminals? Explain how you arrived at that answer.

You're not surrendering anything. You can still have guns, you just can't have the more destructive ones. You can still own a .308 Springfield; you just can't own an M14. You can still own a Colt .45; you just can't own a machine pistol.

And quit overexaggerating to try to make your point seem honorable. You know, as well as I do, that regular citizens like me and you don't need access to M60s, SAW shotguns, or LAW rocket launchers. Yeah, it would be fun to own one, but we don't need one.

Stealth Hunter 11-16-08 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Vlad
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
That's complete bulls**t. You've still got plenty of freedom. Seriously, YOU DO NOT NEED A ****ING RPG, GRENADE, OR HOWITZER. A .38 Special or a .308 Sprinfield is just as deadly.

Actually, it's not complete bull****, it's a fact that disarms your worries about gun safety. You have no problems with items that kill far more people than guns, yet advocate restrictions on guns instead of these other items. This is a hypocritical argument, and can therefore be safely discarded.

:rotfl:

You know the difference between an M60 and a .22 Winchester, Vlad? An M60 fires over 550 rounds per minute. A .22 has a barrel that holds 15 bullets that have to be loaded one at a time. Now, which one is more deadly?

Captain Vlad 11-16-08 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
You know the difference between an M60 and a .22 Winchester, Vlad? An M60 fires over 550 rounds per minute. A .22 has a barrel that holds 15 bullets that have to be loaded one at a time. Now, which one is more deadly?

That depends, almost entirely, on the person holding the weapon.

Edit: Oh, and you avoided my point once again. How many people did legally obtained M-60's kill last year? Now how many got electrocuted by a hair dryer?

Stealth Hunter 11-16-08 07:43 PM

Uh huh.

Let me rephrase it then. Which one do YOU think is more deadly?


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