SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - Counting the lies.....

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- - Counting the lies..... (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=142050)

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Originally Posted by Frame57

Big difference between squabbling over policy, and that of someone being qualified to be president, which did not happen then Steven... Besides I am not Hannity and Colmes. You know me Steven, I do not predicate being carelful with words. I mean what i say and say what I mean.

Actually they are precisely the same. Both cases involved politicians, not 'squabbling', but doing their best to trash their opponent so they would be the chosen one instead, and then when it became obvious where the chips were falling hurrying to try to be a part of that political gravy train. As I said, it's what politicians do, no matter what the party or the issue.

As to my hardly-veiled accusation of hypocrisy on your part, it's my opinion that you, like others on both sides, have chosen yours and will say anything that smears the other side while staunchly defending your own as 'right', even though both use exactly the same tactics. Why not engage in an honest debate, rather than just throwing mud?

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Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

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Originally Posted by Skybird

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Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Does anyone else find it odd that the credibility of candidates is even an issue?

Why should government have enough power that we have to worry if they're lying to us ?

:lol: that is a very original way of looking at things!

Not really. I heard some guys thought of something like that over 200 years ago.
I wonder if their idea ever worked.:D

Maybe, maybe not; but smear tactics as a form of campaigning was a matter of course even for them, even then.

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Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Maybe, maybe not; but smear tactics as a form of campaigning was a matter of course even for them, even then.

Point of argument totally derailed now. Maybe you should be a campaign manager:p

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Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

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Originally Posted by Frame57

STEVAN! STEVAN! STEVAN! Ouch! I just gave myself a migrane... Dude there is a huge difference! Disagreeing and slamming another candidate is business as usual and sad in that is what people respond to. But to publicy denounce someones ability or qualifications to lead the the Country is altogether a different animal. I have a new dentist that slams my former dentist because of the techniques he uses. They use a different approach, one likes implants, the other bridges... I can relate to that and they are competitors for my business. But neither is stating the other is not qualified to be a dentist, that would be another ball game altogether. Now, seriously, when was your last checkup?:D

People say what they think they need to to get elected. If your dentist said his predecessor wasn't qualified, he may have meant it sincerely, or he may have just been trying to steal his business.

Are the Dems hypocritical? I agree with you there, no question. I just react strongly to one-sidedness, no matter who practices it.

Last checkup? Dental? Before half the people on this board were born. Medical? Just last week. Psychiatric? Probably not often enough, but those guys scare me.

Shrinks! Ugh! Had to see one before there was anger management programs. My neighbor used to let his dog do his business in my yard. I nicely asked him to keep his dog off my property. To no avail, I then saved all the dog droppings for about a month and put them in a medium sized garbage bag. I put the bag on the neighbors door knob and tossed an M-80 in it and rang his bell. The Judge decided i should see a shrink for this. The shrink stared at me for what seemed like an hour without saying a word, then asks, "Tell me about your relationship with your Mother...." Only in America...

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Originally Posted by Tchocky

Whether earmarks are good or bad is irrelevant, I am merely holding candidates to their words. McCain is a hypocrite in this case, or worse.

I was using that to set up my next point:

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When Barack Obama and fellow state lawmakers in Illinois tried to expand healthcare coverage in 2003 with the "Health Care Justice Act," they drew fierce opposition from the insurance industry, which saw it as a back-handed attempt to impose a government-run system.

Over the next 15 months, insurers and their lobbyists found a sympathetic ear in Obama, who amended the bill more to their liking partly because of concerns they raised with him and his aides, according to lobbyists, Senate staff, and Obama's remarks on the Senate floor.

The wrangling over the healthcare measure, which narrowly passed and became law in 2004, illustrates how Obama, during his eight years in the Illinois Senate, was able to shepherd major legislation by negotiating competing interests in Springfield, the state capital. But it also shows how Obama's own experience in lawmaking involved dealings with the kinds of lobbyists and special interests he now demonizes on the campaign trail.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...ith_lobbyists/

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"The people in this stadium need to know who we're going to fight for," Obama said at Soldier Field. "The reason that I'm running for president is because of you, not because of folks who are writing big checks, and that's a clear message that has to be sent, I think, by every candidate."

But behind Obama's campaign rhetoric about taking on special interests lies a more complicated truth. A Globe review of Obama's campaign finance records shows that he collected hundreds of thousands of dollars from lobbyists and PACs as a state legislator in Illinois, a US senator, and a presidential aspirant.

In Obama's eight years in the Illinois Senate, from 1996 to 2004, almost two-thirds of the money he raised for his campaigns -- $296,000 of $461,000 -- came from PACs, corporate contributions, or unions, according to Illinois Board of Elections records. He tapped financial services firms, real estate developers, healthcare providers, oil companies, and many other corporate interests, the records show.
Obama's US Senate campaign committee, starting with his successful run in 2004, has collected $128,000 from lobbyists and $1.3 million from PACs, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonprofit organization that tracks money in politics. His $1.3 million from PACs represents 8 percent of what he has raised overall. Clinton's Senate committee, by comparison, has raised $3 million from PACs, 4 percent of her total amount raised, the group said.

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Though Obama has returned thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from registered federal lobbyists since he declared his candidacy in February, his presidential campaign has maintained ties with lobbyists and lobbying firms to help raise some of the $58.9 million he collected through the first six months of 2007. Obama has raised more than $1.4 million from members of law and consultancy firms led by partners who are lobbyists, The Los Angeles Times reported last week. And The Hill, a Washington newspaper, reported earlier this year that Obama's campaign had reached out to lobbyists' networks to use their contacts to help build his fund-raising base.

This activity, along with Obama's past contributions from lobbyists and PACs, has drawn fire from opposing campaigns. Some political analysts say Obama, by casting himself as an uncorrupted good-government crusader, has set himself up for charges of hypocrisy.

"If you're running a campaign about credibility, that credibility and persona are so important you better be squeaky clean," said Richard Semiatin, a political scientist at American University. "While he's getting good traction out of this, I think in the long term he's really got to be careful."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...d_obamas_rise/

Again, who is the hypocrite???? :up:

Yeah, lets!

Obama's Not Exactlys:

1.) Selma March Got Me Born - NOT EXACTLY, your parents felt safe enough to have you in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as Selma was in 1965. (Google'Obama Selma ' for his full March 4, 2007 speech and articles about its various untruths.)

2.) Father Was A Goat Herder - NOT EXACTLY, he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.

3.) Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter - NOT EXACTLY, he was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had.

4.) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom - NOT EXACTLY, your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya . It is the first widespread violence in decades. The current government is pro-American but Odinga wants to overthrow it and establish Muslim Sharia law. Your half-brother, Abongo Oba ma, is Odinga's follower. You interrupted your &n bsp;New Hampshire campaigning to speak to Odinga on the phone. Check out the following link for verification of that....and for more.

Obama's cousin Odinga in Kenya ran for president and tried to get Sharia muslim law in place there. When Odinga lost the elections, his followers have burned Christians' homes and then burned men, women and children alive in a Christian church where they took shelter.. Obama SUPPORTED his cousin before the election process here started. Google Obama and Odinga and see what you get. No one wants to know the truth.

5.) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian - NOT EXACTLY, she does her daily Salat p ray ers at 5am according to her own interviews. Not to mention, Christianity wouldn't allow her to have been one of 14 wives to 1 man.

6.) My Name is African Swahili - NOT EXACTLY, your name is Arabic and 'Baraka' (from which Barack came) means 'blessed' in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.

Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father's side. While Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya , his father's family was mainly Arabs... Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate even states he's Arab, not African Negro). From....and for more....go to.....

7.) I Never Practiced Islam - NOT EXACTLY, you practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years, until your wife made you change, so you could run for office.

4-3-08 Article 'Obama was 'quite religious in islam'' http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=60559

8.) My School In Indonesia Was Christian - NOT EXACTLY, you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies for making faces (check your own book).

February 28, 2008. Kristoff from the New York Times a year ago: Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to p ray er, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it'll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to p ray er as 'one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.' This is just one example of what Pamela is talking about when she says 'Obama's narrative is being altered, enhanced and manipulated to whitewash troubling facts.'

9.) I Was Fluent In Indonesian - NOT EXACTLY, not one teacher says you could speak the language.

10.) Because I Lived In Indonesia , I Have More Foreign Experience - NOT EXACTLY, you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and couldn't even speak the language. What did you learn except how to study the Koran and watch cartoons.

11.) I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs - NOT EXACTLY, except for Africa (surprise) and the Middle East (bigger surprise), you have never been anywhere else on the planet and thus have NO experience with our closest allies.

12.) I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion - NOT EXACTLY, you were quite content in high school to be Barry Obama, no mention of Kenya and no mention of struggle to identify - your classmates said you were just fine

13.)An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office - NOT EXACTLY, Ebony has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

14.) A Life Magazine Article Changed My Outlook On Life - NOT EXACTLY, Life has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

15.) I Won't Run On A National Ticket In '08 - NOT EXACTLY, here you are, despite saying, live on TV, that you would not have enough experience by then, and you are all about having experience first.

16.) Voting 'Present' is Common In Illinois Senate - NOT EXACTLY, they are common for YOU, but not many others have 130 NO VOTES.

17.) Oops, I Misvoted - NOT EXACTLY, only when caught by church groups and Democrats, did you beg to change your misvote.

18.) I Was A Professor Of Law - NOT EXACTLY, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

19.) I Was A Constitutional Lawyer - NOT EXACTLY, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

20.) Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill - NOT EXACTLY, you didn't write it, introduce it, change it or create it.

21.) The Ethics Bill Was Hard To Pass - NOT EXACTLY, it took just 14 days from start to finish.

22.) I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bill - NOT EXACTLY, your bill was rejected by your own party for its pandering and lack of all regulation - mainly because of your Nuclear donor, Exelon, from which David Axelrod came.

23.) I Have Released My State Records - NOT EXACTLY, as of March, 2008, state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be released, exposing all the special interests pork hidden within.

24.) I Took On The Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess - NOT EXACTLY, you were part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld Gardens . You failed to mention anyone else but yourself, in your books.

25.) My Economics Bill Will Help America - NOT EXACTLY, your 111 economic policies were just combined into a proposal which lost 99-0, and even YOU voted against your own bill.

26.) I Have Been A Bold Leader In Illinois - NOT EXACTLY, even your own supporters claim to have not seen BOLD action on your part.

27.) I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year - NOT EXACTLY, they were not YOUR bills, but rather handed to you, after their creation by a fellow Senator, to assist you in a future bid for higher office.

28.) No One on my campaign contacted Canada about NAFTA - NOT EXACTLY, the Canadian Government issued the names and a memo of the conversation your campaign had with them.

29.) I Am Tough On Terrorism - NOT EXACTLY, you missed the Iran Resolution vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali Abunimah supports the destruction off Israel .

30.) I Want All Votes To Count - NOT EXACTLY, you said let the delegates decide.

31.) I Want Americans To Decide - NOT EXACTLY, you prefer caucuses that limit the vote, confuse the voters, force a public vote, and only operate during small windows of time.

32.) I passed 900 Bills in the State Senate - NOT EXACTLY, you passed 26, most of which you didn't write yourself.

33.) I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics - NOT EXACTLY, you used tactics to eliminate Alice Palmer from running against you.

34.) I Don't Take PAC Money - NOT EXACTLY, you take loads of it.

35.) I don't Have Lobbysists - NOT EXACTLY, you have over 47 lobbyists, and counting.

36.) My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad - NOT EXACTLY, your own campaign worker made the ad on his Apple in one afternoon.

37.) I Have Always Been Against Iraq - NOT EXACTLY, you weren't in office to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it every single time.

38.) I Have Always Supported Universal Health Care - NOT EXACTLY, your plan leaves us all to pay for the 15,000,000 who don't have to buy it.

39.) My uncle liberated Auschwitz concentration camp - NOT EXACTLY, your mother had no brothers and the Russan army did the liberating.

So, who EXACTLY is this Obama guy and what is he trying to sell us?!

NObama, NObama, NObama!

:rotfl: Neptunus Rex!

I read the entire article you linked to, and it also had this to say:

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Further, at only 6.25% African Negro, would he even be the first President who was part black? Not at all! Our 3rd President, Thomas Jefferson was our first part black President. And he's not alone, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge were also part black.

President Andrew Jackson was the son of an Irish woman who married a black man. Andrew Jackson was such a high percentage black that his oldest brother was sold as a slave!

President Abraham Lincoln was the illegitimate son of an African man, he had very dark skin and coarse hair and his mother also allegedly came from an Ethiopian tribe. His heritage fueled so much controversy that Lincoln was nicknamed "Abraham Africanus the First" by his opponents.

If the rest of the sources for your tirade are as reliable, you might convince me to vote for Obama!

Sources? If I had sources, I would be a professional writer.

I just like fanning the flames!;)

A BB is the last place I would post "research".

Tirade! I never throw tirades. That implies emotional attachment to my posts.

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Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

:rotfl: Neptunus Rex!

If the rest of the sources for your tirade are as reliable, you might convince me to vote for Obama!

Say it ain't so, not for the O. ;)

NObama, NObama, NObama!

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09152008...150.htm?page=0

Gee, kinda like the Canada fiasco!

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Originally Posted by Neptunus Rex

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09152008...150.htm?page=0

Gee, kinda like the Canada fiasco!

SS need a constitionalist's opinion: could this be a violation of the Logan Act?

Good find NR....huzzah:rock:

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Originally Posted by Neptunus Rex

An honest troll?

I like it!:rock:

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Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

:rotfl: Neptunus Rex!

I read the entire article you linked to, and it also had this to say:

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If the rest of the sources for your tirade are as reliable, you might convince me to vote for Obama!

Lincoln was a negro?:huh: