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-   -   USS Freedom LCS-1 soon and very soon (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=138547)

Bort 06-27-08 06:28 PM

IMO, the US Navy would have been way better of just deciding to build a new fast frigate class, with better capability in shallow water and some new tech, to replace the OHP's. Instead they had to go and reinvent the wheel with all this "transformational" and "modular" garbage, and in the end we will end up with a HUGE bill, and probably around 10 deeply flawed vessels before the program is cancelled. :nope:

SUBMAN1 06-27-08 07:36 PM

Look at the cost of a Tico!!! This ship makes sense for this day in age - to do more with less. And, unlike the German Navy, you can guarantee America will buy the modules. The Germans rely on the Americans anyway for support in wartime so they see it of little value to buy them.

This ship makes sense for this day in age. It is a stealth design as well - radar sig is minimal. Sound sig is minimal. Even IR sig is reduced.

$600 mil is cheap to a single Tico. A Tico takes $50 mil per year approx to simply operate too ($28 mil in 1996 $)

-S

Takao 06-27-08 11:23 PM

Yeah, it does make sense in this day and age. It is like a Hollywood movie, big budget, neat-o special effects, but little intrinsic value.

As for the doing more with less. Yep! that is why USN studies found the proposed crew of 40 to be very overworked. Testing of the proposed 70 hr work week exceeded core crew endurances by 594 hrs. and 42 percent of the crew exceeded acceptable fatigue levels. You can't win if your too fatigued to even fight.

The LCS is: Over priced. Under equipped, under armed, and under staffed.

It can be a gold-plated minesweeper.
It can be a gold-plated battle taxi for special forces.
It will be gold-plated but of dubious use in surface combat.
It can be a gold-plated ASW unit.
It can be a gold-plated ELINT unit.
It can be a gold-plated Maritime Intercept unit.
It can be a gold-plated Homeland Defense unit.
It can be a gold-plated Anti-Terrorist/Force Protection unit

As for stealth, it will be at SEA! What's it going to be mistaken for a low flying seagull with a high powered radar emitter.

As for the Aegis cruisers: look what you get for $1 billion as opposed to the $600 million LCS. The Aegis is a major offensive and defensive weapons platform. The LCS is about as inoffensive an offensive weapons platform can be and its defensive capabilities are nowhere near an Aegis.

The LCS is just a modern variant of the battlecruiser. It can out fight what it can't out run. That didn't work then, so why does the USN think it will work now?

AntEater 06-28-08 04:46 AM

Subman, sadly it seems the US navy is not as rational as in your days.
If it were, the whole LCS program would've either looked different or would simply have been a new generation FFG.
Even in the US, it is not unheard of not to realize the full potential of a weapons system. AFAIK the LAMPS program originally intended to arm the SH-2 Seasprite with Sparrow missiles to extend SAM coverage. The system worked, but was never taken over operationally. And that was in the cold war days with a lot more funds to go around. So it wouldn't suprise me if only the modules urgently needed will be purchased, most likely Special Forces, mine countermeasures and maybe ASW. The others might just be put on back burner and eventually be forgotten.
Also I doubt there will be enough modules to really have an option for each LCS. That would mean 3-4 Modules per ship, but I suppose given the cost it is more realistic to assume one module per LCS, so that we will have a de facto specialized ship with no flexibility at all.

A similar phenomenon is with the StanFlex ships of the danish navy. These might have been the inspiration for the LCS, but these are conventional warships. In theory, you have a large patrol vessel with a 76mm gun and helos that can be turned into a fully fledged FFG in very short time. Problem is, that has never been done in 10 years of service and most modules apparently are not even available.

Re german arms procurement, the opposite is true. The german military tries to become self sufficient or european equipped in pretty much everything. I think the Standard missiles for the F 124 class frigates might have been the last actual weapons bought in the US. US systems today are only bought when a comparable german or european system is not available and the weapon/vehicle is urgently needed. For example Global Hawk and Predator UAVs and .50 cal Barrett sniper rifles.
But even those systems are largely license build in germany.

But regarding the LCS program, the problem is that the US navy has largely privatized its procurement and development. That is, they basically threw away 100+ years of institutionalized knowledge in warship building and combat experience and replaced it with fancy powerpoint presenations.

TLAM Strike 07-01-08 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntEater
A similar phenomenon is with the StanFlex ships of the danish navy. These might have been the inspiration for the LCS, but these are conventional warships. In theory, you have a large patrol vessel with a 76mm gun and helos that can be turned into a fully fledged FFG in very short time. Problem is, that has never been done in 10 years of service and most modules apparently are not even available.

Or like the Candian Kingston class OPV which have a mine sweeping module. The Candian Navy only has two or so of these aviable and rearly uses them.


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